Gossip at Talkchess

http://talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?p=881208#p881208

False.

10 years ago (or so) I got explicit permission from ChessBase.

Never heard of that guy. Maybe a pseudonym.

Notable his first post.

Admin wrote:

Notable his first post.

If forced to guess, HGM trolling you with a little helper account.

Admin wrote:

Notable his first post.

...and his last?  

Not a question you'd expect a new member, eager to learn all about computer chess, to ask as his first question!  

Talkchess keeps a few details of members you wouldn't expect them to - notably the IP address of a new member. If you're interested in the country/region, you could ask them for this user's IP.

I think they might also keep a unique number in their cookies, enabling them to determine whether someone has logged in as different users from the same browser (they used to do something like that on the older version of the board software).

Chris Whittington wrote:

Admin wrote:

Notable his first post.

If forced to guess, HGM trolling you with a little helper account.

I would not doubt it. But no one here is going to respond there.

mwyoung wrote:

Chris Whittington wrote:

Admin wrote:

Notable his first post.

If forced to guess, HGM trolling you with a little helper account.

I would not doubt it. But no one here is going to respond there.

That doesn't matter, let them. Good choice I left.

TheSelfImprover wrote:

Talkchess keeps a few details of members you wouldn't expect them to - notably the IP address of a new member. If you're interested in the country/region, you could ask them for this user's IP.

And with these tools they cannot lift the IP ban for long-term members? No comment.

Admin wrote:

http://talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?p=881208#p881208

False.

10 years ago (or so) I got explicit permission from ChessBase.

From TalkChess.

[Moderation] It is OK to point out breaches of copyright. But then please do not copy the offending links here, as that would just help the culprits!

Ed, You are deemed guilty. And you are now a Culprit.

cul·prit
/ˈkəlprət,ˈkəlˌprit/
noun
a person who is responsible for a crime or other misdeed.

Not a moderation on the false attack, or false claim. And then the moderation is also an attack on Ed!.

If you have fans like this bot, you need no enemies Ed.

IMO he is tueschen in disguise, still angry because he got no free update for a promised rebel engine 40 years ago.

mwyoung wrote:

Admin wrote:

http://talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?p=881208#p881208

False.

10 years ago (or so) I got explicit permission from ChessBase.

From TalkChess.

[Moderation] It is OK to point out breaches of copyright. But then please do not copy the offending links here, as that would just help the culprits!

Ed, You are deemed guilty. And you are now a Culprit.

cul·prit
/ˈkəlprət,ˈkəlˌprit/
noun
a person who is responsible for a crime or other misdeed.

Not a moderation on the false attack, or false claim. And then the moderation is also an attack on Ed!.

That's why it was fun for a one time exception and answer him specifically. If he had read well the old page in question among other statements: With kind permission from Chessbase chief Matthias Wüllenweber, not exactly the guy from the helpdesk.

Searched my mailbox, found this.

From: "Matthias Wuellenweber" <...>
To: "'Ed Schroder'" <...l>
Subject: AW: History of Computer Chess
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 21:41:02 +0100

Hello Ed,

Nice project! Please use the Fritz1&2 downloads.

Best regards,

Matthias


Von: Ed Schroder [mailto:....]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 1. Februar 2007 19:14
An: Matthias Wüllenweber
Betreff: History of Computer Chess

Hi Matthias,

I am building a new web-site that is going to record all the old computer
chess stuff before it will be lost forever as more and more of the old chess
links sadly won't work any longer.

I came across this page [ http://www.gambitchess.com/progr.htm ] which
offers Fritz 1 & 2 for download which is very interesting for my project! I
want to ask you if I can do the same thing, put these programs on my
web-site and offer it for download.

See this example: http://members.home.nl/matador/start.htm

Note this yet is an inactive alpha URL, I just started but it gives you an
idea.

Hope to hear from you,

Ed

Admin wrote:

mwyoung wrote:

Admin wrote:

http://talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?p=881208#p881208

False.

10 years ago (or so) I got explicit permission from ChessBase.

From TalkChess.

[Moderation] It is OK to point out breaches of copyright. But then please do not copy the offending links here, as that would just help the culprits!

Ed, You are deemed guilty. And you are now a Culprit.

cul·prit
/ˈkəlprət,ˈkəlˌprit/
noun
a person who is responsible for a crime or other misdeed.

Not a moderation on the false attack, or false claim. And then the moderation is also an attack on Ed!.

That's why it was fun for a one time exception and answer him specifically. If he had read well the old page in question among other statements: With kind permission from Chessbase chief Matthias Wüllenweber, not exactly the guy from the helpdesk.

It was clear you did not breach any copyright. It should have been clear to everyone, and the moderation TEAM. I did have some respect for some at CCC.  Not anymore. They have lost their way, and CCC will never recover. We live in evil times, and it will only get worse. And it is up to Chessbase to defend their copyright. If your information was not true.

It was a bit harder to find the Fritz 5.32 correspondence, hundreds of emails containing the text:

Hi Peter,

Long time no see man, hope everything is well with you!

I want to check something with you as this Norbert guy keeps on bugging me. When I saw Fritz 5.32 offered as a free download from a German (software) magazine somewhere back in 2007 I asked Chessbase permission to put it on my oldies page and permission was granted for other golden oldies as well. See my oldies collection at: http://www.top-5000.nl/cp.htm

Now the guy is whining about a non-existing opening book and if I would pressure Chessbase to provide one. What a nonsense. Anyway I am writing you because I don't want any friction between Chessbase and me and I am not sure what this guy is writing you more. If he created any doubt please contact me.

My best to you,

Ed

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 13:24:32 +0200
From: Peter Schreiner <...>
Subject: AW: W.: AW: Fritz 5.32 Eröffnungsbuch

We don`t have any problems here. I know the customer, sometimes he want
different things. My proposal: we ignore him with this matter. If he wants
an Opening Book, he can create one or use one from the other DVD ROM`s.

Best wishes
-Peter

--------------

BTW, what a nice program was Fritz 5.32, very enjoyable interface.

BTW2, I know I don't have to proof myself to you. But I better have it documented when the slander continues over there.

Indeed, Fritz 5 was very enjoyable and functional. And with a little effort, one can install UCI engines for analysis (I know about the problems with the adapter. Not for eng-eng matches, but there a re other GUIs for this.)

On another note, I hope this whole story is over. I certainly do not understand the point of inquiring about 20-30 years old software. Besides, everybody knows that you are not the kind of person that would infringe copyrights.

matejst wrote:

I certainly do not understand the point of inquiring about 20-30 years old software.

A lot own owners of film/music material find they can make more money by putting it on YouTube than they can by selling it elsewhere.

Obviously this wouldn't apply to a chess program: however, the owner might want to offer a collection of old programs as an "exclusive offer" as a means of attracting/retaining customers. Maybe this strange post on Talkchess was checking whether this would be possible.

Edit: unless he's changed dramatically since I last met him, I would have thought that Frederic Friedel would call or write to Ed rather than doing something surreptitious if he was thinking along these lines.

matejst wrote:

Indeed, Fritz 5 was very enjoyable and functional. And with a little effort, one can install UCI engines for analysis (I know about the problems with the adapter. Not for eng-eng matches, but there a re other GUIs for this.)

On another note, I hope this whole story is over. I certainly do not understand the point of inquiring about 20-30 years old software. Besides, everybody knows that you are not the kind of person that would infringe copyrights.

The point of enquiring is to troll Ed (who doesn’t post anymore at talkchess). The troller is a new account with no history, let alone from 15 years ago. You’ll remember a mass of new accounts at the time of the HGM get rid of the shit campaign, all of whom claimed CC knowledge from 20 years ago, and all of whom backed HGM. They all disappeared now they served their function. HGM has a long going-on record of trolling Ed. HGM now effectively controls talkchess. It hardly requires many brain cells to conclude that HGM makes little helper accounts, and this one is part of his dislike and trolling towards Ed.

Chris, I thought about this too. And I am not blind, I also noticed that it was a first time poster, behaving like he posts on CCC for years. One cannot be new to the computerchess world and find immediately Zarkon Fischer's site, links on archive.org, know who is Ed and what he has done 20 years ago... It was most probably not a neophyte (although the proselytism was flagrant). So, no, I am not naive.

But why troll Ed, who is not even posting at CCC? What's the point? Is it this forum? This forum here is less specialized, and allows a wider range of topics than CCC, more in line with what computerchess was a decade or two ago. And nobody writes about HGM, nor about CCC. And from what I remember, Ed fought for more tolerance, respect, and was very constructive on Talkchess.

matejst wrote:

Chris, I thought about this too. And I am not blind, I also noticed that it was a first time poster, behaving like he posts on CCC for years. One cannot be new to the computerchess world and find immediately Zarkon Fischer's site, links on archive.org, know who is Ed and what he has done 20 years ago... It was most probably not a neophyte (although the proselytism was flagrant). So, no, I am not naive.

But why troll Ed, who is not even posting at CCC? What's the point? Is it this forum? This forum here is less specialized, and allows a wider range of topics than CCC, more in line with what computerchess was a decade or two ago. And nobody writes about HGM, nor about CCC. And from what I remember, Ed fought for more tolerance, respect, and was very constructive on Talkchess.

Exactly, why troll Ed? There is only actually one person around who has a thing about Ed, stretching back a long time, self-professedly actually calling himself an avenging angel (hence suitably insane), suspect history of organising little helpers and then of jumping in with pompous “moderator” BS, and who has always turned down “peace”. Most likely it’s a bored HGM who may also be worrying somewhat about traffic fall in general on talkchess. Plus he jumped on the posted page with lots of red ink. Who else?

IMO this sentence

Code:

 And thanks for your great Mephisto Gideon, the Rebel and Prodeo programs!

and this sentence

Code:

 In German terms like "Vorauseilendem Gehorsam" and "Schere im Kopf" are coming to my mind, but I don't know how to properly translate them to English.

outs the guy as German. As tueschen. He always attacked Ed because he did not get an update for a program where an update was promised, when I remember it right.

Chris Whittington wrote:

matejst wrote:

Chris, I thought about this too. And I am not blind, I also noticed that it was a first time poster, behaving like he posts on CCC for years. One cannot be new to the computerchess world and find immediately Zarkon Fischer's site, links on archive.org, know who is Ed and what he has done 20 years ago... It was most probably not a neophyte (although the proselytism was flagrant). So, no, I am not naive.

But why troll Ed, who is not even posting at CCC? What's the point? Is it this forum? This forum here is less specialized, and allows a wider range of topics than CCC, more in line with what computerchess was a decade or two ago. And nobody writes about HGM, nor about CCC. And from what I remember, Ed fought for more tolerance, respect, and was very constructive on Talkchess.

Exactly, why troll Ed? There is only actually one person around who has a thing about Ed, stretching back a long time, self-professedly actually calling himself an avenging angel (hence suitably insane), suspect history of organising little helpers and then of jumping in with pompous “moderator” BS, and who has always turned down “peace”. Most likely it’s a bored HGM who may also be worrying somewhat about traffic fall in general on talkchess. Plus he jumped on the posted page with lots of red ink. Who else?

That is what happens when you want to create a echo chamber. And kill all diversity of thought. I have noticed the fall in post and topics. And I am beginning to only look at CCC every couple of days now. As not much changes.

This is still the post at the top with no changes in hours. Fritz 5.32 and older Chessbase products really free?

A post about Ed!

Mclane wrote:

IMO this sentence

Code:

 And thanks for your great Mephisto Gideon, the Rebel and Prodeo programs!

and this sentence

Code:

 In German terms like "Vorauseilendem Gehorsam" and "Schere im Kopf" are coming to my mind, but I don't know how to properly translate them to English.

outs the guy as German. As tueschen. He always attacked Ed because he did not get an update for a program where an update was promised, when I remember it right.

Having mulled on this, probably not Rolf: the accuracy of the English language is better than I remember from him. I like the "German" idea, though. Chessbase is a German company, and Chessbase is directly involved in the issue. As I said before, I think Frederick Friedel has to much class (in the social behaviour sense) to have done it, but I've never met the other people who work for that company. They are, collectively, my personal suspects now.

Chris Whittington wrote:

matejst wrote:

Chris, I thought about this too. And I am not blind, I also noticed that it was a first time poster, behaving like he posts on CCC for years. One cannot be new to the computerchess world and find immediately Zarkon Fischer's site, links on archive.org, know who is Ed and what he has done 20 years ago... It was most probably not a neophyte (although the proselytism was flagrant). So, no, I am not naive.

But why troll Ed, who is not even posting at CCC? What's the point? Is it this forum? This forum here is less specialized, and allows a wider range of topics than CCC, more in line with what computerchess was a decade or two ago. And nobody writes about HGM, nor about CCC. And from what I remember, Ed fought for more tolerance, respect, and was very constructive on Talkchess.

Exactly, why troll Ed? There is only actually one person around who has a thing about Ed, stretching back a long time, self-professedly actually calling himself an avenging angel (hence suitably insane), suspect history of organising little helpers and then of jumping in with pompous “moderator” BS, and who has always turned down “peace”. Most likely it’s a bored HGM who may also be worrying somewhat about traffic fall in general on talkchess. Plus he jumped on the posted page with lots of red ink. Who else?

I think your post is stupid paranoia. Czub is right that this simply was a German troll. (using uncommon German terms in one post)

First he complained, then he was irritated, because his links were removed, ('which could be illegally') what did he expect?
HGM also mentioned that 'user' could have made up his Chessbase contact either.
Not sure, if this was a trolling attempt on both, Ed and HGM ;-)

BTW there is still a topic here about 'Is it Ever OK to Steal Chess Books Online?' (with a youtube link)
Not sure of this appropriate for this forum?

There's no paranoia from my part whatsoever.

Certain people are very well known in the cc community and such attacks on their reputations should have not been allowed. I found it inappropriate that credit (and, indirectly, support) was given to a first time, unknown poster, instead of a well known author and CC member, known most probably in person by the moderators. That there is also a personal vendetta is clear from the fact that links to the emails were deleted. The excuse was a bit cynical, from the moderator of a site where personal attacks are abundant almost on every page, for every possible reason.


On another topic, while I think that things happening lately at talkchess were deplorable, the creation of another forum with a slightly different profile is good overall. Fora are mostly used by older posters, while the younger population use more and more twitter, discord, and other forms with faster interaction. That's the main reason there is less activity both on CCC and here. Times are changing.

And there will always be trolls. Let's also not forget that we come from different cultures, with different education and views. Americans are different from Brits or Germans, who are different from Dutch, who are different from Serbs. So, some kind of behaviour which I find unacceptable are the norm in certain cultures. It is difficult to assess. Some may find my repeated interests in fixed depth testing and evaluation quality trolling even, while others, like me, are also genuinely interested in finding an engine who replicates human patterns of "thinking" in chess. It is all for debate.

matejst wrote:

There's no paranoia from my part whatsoever.

Certain people are very well known in the cc community and such attacks on their reputations should have not been allowed. I found it inappropriate that credit (and, indirectly, support) was given to a first time, unknown poster, instead of a well known author and CC member, known most probably in person by the moderators. That there is also a personal vendetta is clear from the fact that links to the emails were deleted. The excuse was a bit cynical, from the moderator of a site where personal attacks are abundant almost on every page, for every possible reason.


On another topic, while I think that things happening lately at talkchess were deplorable, the creation of another forum with a slightly different profile is good overall. Fora are mostly used by older posters, while the younger population use more and more twitter, discord, and other forms with faster interaction. That's the main reason there is less activity both on CCC and here. Times are changing.

And there will always be trolls. Let's also not forget that we come from different cultures, with different education and views. Americans are different from Brits or Germans, who are different from Dutch, who are different from Serbs. So, some kind of behaviour which I find unacceptable are the norm in certain cultures. It is difficult to assess. Some may find my repeated interests in fixed depth testing and evaluation quality trolling even, while others, like me, are also genuinely interested in finding an engine who replicates human patterns of "thinking" in chess. It is all for debate.

In case some think that HGM is not using the CCC forum and his moderator status to attack Ed! This should clear things right up.

Where are Dann Corbit, Harvey Williamson -  They are moderators in name only. Cowards!


Re: Fritz 5.32 and older Chessbase products really free?
Post by H.G.Muller » Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:03 pm

If you cannot 'defend against slander' without violating the charter... Then indeed, your 'defense' will be removed.

Let me explain it so that even an idiot can understand:

We have a charter that forbids uncivilised behavior, and moderators to enforce that charter.
So material that violates the charter, will be moderated away.
And links to such material posted elsewhere will be moderated away.

If you cannot keep your own forum clean of libelous attacks, just do not post stuff you want us to see there.