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 Why is this even a debate?

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mwyoung

mwyoung


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Join date : 2020-11-25
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PostSubject: Why is this even a debate?   Why is this even a debate? EmptyThu Aug 26, 2021 9:58 pm

The Great Stockfish NPS Debate. http://talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=78030

I am still amazed by the total lack of knowledge some so called experts have.

NPS is not important, and is only relevant running the same number of cores, and threads on the exact same engine. To gauge the computer's systems speed.

But what is important is the chess engines performance on a computer system. And that is measured with testing, not NPS.

It is meaningless to compare. Say the latest SF with a bigger and much slower net in terms of NPS. To other versions of Stockfish. Yes, NPS is slower, but so what.
What matters is the Elo Performance. And the latest Stockfish is much slower, and is also stronger.
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TheSelfImprover

TheSelfImprover


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Join date : 2020-11-18

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PostSubject: Re: Why is this even a debate?   Why is this even a debate? EmptyThu Aug 26, 2021 10:56 pm

I think there are times when NPS is interesting:

* 1 ply. Answers the question, "What does it know about chess?"

* Bob Hyatt came from a time when ply was everything: in the sixties and seventies, the team with the most plies often won

* Today it is interesting that Leela plays so well, and quite stylishly, with a much lower ply count than top programs that went before

So ply can be interesting, but only as one of many factors - and it's importance is probably diminishing in the new world of AI.
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mwyoung

mwyoung


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PostSubject: Re: Why is this even a debate?   Why is this even a debate? EmptyThu Aug 26, 2021 11:04 pm

TheSelfImprover wrote:
I think there are times when NPS is interesting:

* 1 ply. Answers the question, "What does it know about chess?"

* Bob Hyatt came from a time when ply was everything: in the sixties and seventies, the team with the most plies often won

* Today it is interesting that Leela plays so well, and quite stylishly, with a much lower ply count than top programs that went before

So ply can be interesting, but only as one of many factors - and it's importance is probably diminishing in the new world of AI.

You changed terms, Ply is not NPS. But regardless, NPS is meaningless except where I stated.

The bottom line is how does the engine perform. Nothing else matters. Not Ply, Not NPS given equal hardware.

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Admin
Admin
Admin


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PostSubject: Re: Why is this even a debate?   Why is this even a debate? EmptyFri Aug 27, 2021 9:47 am

If one engine has proven that NPS is relative than it would be Lc0.
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TheSelfImprover

TheSelfImprover


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PostSubject: Re: Why is this even a debate?   Why is this even a debate? EmptyFri Aug 27, 2021 9:53 am

Another use for NPS is comparing hardware - though I would use GeekBench as my first choice for that purpose.
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PostSubject: Re: Why is this even a debate?   Why is this even a debate? Empty

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