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 The colder days : prime time for new engines

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Mclane

Mclane


Posts : 2974
Join date : 2020-11-17
Age : 57
Location : United States of Europe, Germany, Ruhr area

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PostSubject: The colder days : prime time for new engines   The colder days : prime time for new engines EmptySun Sep 19, 2021 12:37 pm

In the colder days we need new engines to warm us in front our pcs.

Engines that play different.
I am not interested in stockfish.
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matejst

matejst


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Join date : 2020-11-26

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PostSubject: Re: The colder days : prime time for new engines   The colder days : prime time for new engines EmptyMon Sep 20, 2021 9:12 am

Thorsten, I often analyse with two engines at the same time and compare their lines. The differences are not big, especially in the openings. It is a bit more interesting when one uses multi-pv, or compares a slow engine with a very fast engine, or a NN-engine with a HCE-engine. It helps finding interesting plans in a given position, and understand it better.

In general, using the same techniques, the same tuning methods, similar data, engines are very similar. A few could evolve differently: Seer, Berserk are my first candidates. The first has a very interesting NN, the other a good combination of fast search and good HCE evaluation, soon to be combined with smaller nets for parts of the eval, like SlowChess. I liked Winter too, but the development has stalled lately.
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Mclane

Mclane


Posts : 2974
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PostSubject: Re: The colder days : prime time for new engines   The colder days : prime time for new engines EmptyMon Sep 20, 2021 7:27 pm

All those engines are that similar.

I have completely stopped pc chess because no engine interests me anymore.
They are obviously state if the art, boring engines.

If i would not have the old dedicated and the old dos engines etc, i could stop doing computerchess.

It is all hardware hardware hardware.
Auto testing . Auto tuning. Its imo boring.
Thats not chess. Its increasing ELO. But these engines rarely play chess.

I know this sounds like a paradoxon.

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matejst

matejst


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Join date : 2020-11-26

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PostSubject: Re: The colder days : prime time for new engines   The colder days : prime time for new engines EmptyTue Sep 21, 2021 11:29 am

They simply lack options. Some older projects had personalities -- one could immediately notice a difference in play, more positional or more aggressive plans and moves. I don't know about the new Komodos, the one with personalities are still commercial, but when I load Weiss, Berserk or Koivisto 4.83 (all three have HCE), I see the same lack of options (almost none; online book or online TBs), and I feel that the only differences are the way they prune and the depths they achieve.

I compared ShashChess Petrosian and ShashChess Tal in different positions: the differences are quite small. The emphasis is nowadays mostly on search, and chess engines are just an engineering feat nowadays. I used to test different versions of Komodo at fixed depths: Komodo 8, although tactically weaker, has about the same strength as K12 at depth 16. I feel that the evaluation function has been neglected. Even with the NNs, I think that this job has not been taken seriously. Fat Titz is a paradigmatic case of the new philosophy: "the biggest the net, the better the eval". It seems that a combination of nets and HCE could give better results and more original results, but nobody tries.
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Mclane

Mclane


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PostSubject: Re: The colder days : prime time for new engines   The colder days : prime time for new engines EmptyTue Sep 21, 2021 11:47 am

They concentrate on ELO.
And that makes it boring.

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