While Stockfish won the confrontation with Komodo 55-45, 40 moves in 2 hours is a whole different game. Problem, Stockfish seldom loses. If you look at the GRL you see SF losing only 26 games out of 2000 while Dragon loses 143 / 2200 games.
Uri Blass
Posts : 207 Join date : 2020-11-28
Subject: Re: Computer Chess Engine Classical Chess Championship. Stockfish 14 vs. Dragon 2.5.1 Sun Oct 24, 2021 3:25 pm
While Stockfish won the confrontation with Komodo 55-45, 40 moves in 2 hours is a whole different game. Problem, Stockfish seldom loses. If you look at the GRL you see SF losing only 26 games out of 2000 while Dragon loses 143 / 2200 games.
I guess 24 draws and in case that I am right I suggest that next match is going to be stockfish11 60+60 against stockfish14 5+5 to see if stockfish11 60+60 can get wins(if yes then next step can be stockfish11 120/40 against stockfish14 120/40)
mwyoung
Posts : 880 Join date : 2020-11-25 Location : USA
Subject: Re: Computer Chess Engine Classical Chess Championship. Stockfish 14 vs. Dragon 2.5.1 Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:59 pm
I have a Tornado outbreak ongoing in my area. If I lose power, or connection. I will restart the match from where we left off. If that happens.
Subject: Re: Computer Chess Engine Classical Chess Championship. Stockfish 14 vs. Dragon 2.5.1 Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:05 am
Looks like fun, this storm chasing, but I think they missed it. They just said, "It's a crap shoot this storm chasing, but you've just got to get out there each time there are tornadoes, and eventually you'll get one".
They are still trying - using radar data to search.
mwyoung
Posts : 880 Join date : 2020-11-25 Location : USA
Subject: Re: Computer Chess Engine Classical Chess Championship. Stockfish 14 vs. Dragon 2.5.1 Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:07 am
TheSelfImprover wrote:
Looks like fun, this storm chasing, but I think they missed it. They just said, "It's a crap shoot this storm chasing, but you've just got to get out there each time there are tornadoes, and eventually you'll get one".
They are still trying - using radar data to search.
No they will get it. The south storm and play are all going tornadic. It will be a long and crazy night for me.
TheSelfImprover
Posts : 3110 Join date : 2020-11-18
Subject: Re: Computer Chess Engine Classical Chess Championship. Stockfish 14 vs. Dragon 2.5.1 Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:39 am
mwyoung wrote:
TheSelfImprover wrote:
Looks like fun, this storm chasing, but I think they missed it. They just said, "It's a crap shoot this storm chasing, but you've just got to get out there each time there are tornadoes, and eventually you'll get one".
They are still trying - using radar data to search.
No they will get it. The south storm and play are all going tornadic. It will be a long and crazy night for me.
Looking at the clouds on the feed, the winds in the altitudes are not strong. I think it's over for today (will be dark soon in Missouri anyway).
mwyoung
Posts : 880 Join date : 2020-11-25 Location : USA
Subject: Re: Computer Chess Engine Classical Chess Championship. Stockfish 14 vs. Dragon 2.5.1 Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:43 am
TheSelfImprover wrote:
mwyoung wrote:
TheSelfImprover wrote:
Looks like fun, this storm chasing, but I think they missed it. They just said, "It's a crap shoot this storm chasing, but you've just got to get out there each time there are tornadoes, and eventually you'll get one".
They are still trying - using radar data to search.
No they will get it. The south storm and play are all going tornadic. It will be a long and crazy night for me.
Looking at the clouds on the feed, the winds in the altitudes are not strong. I think it's over for today (will be dark soon in Missouri anyway).
It is just getting started. Low level jet is screaming to the north. I can see it over head with the clouds
Tornado watch has been extended. I will be under the gun all night.
Admin Admin
Posts : 2608 Join date : 2020-11-17 Location : Netherlands
Subject: Re: Computer Chess Engine Classical Chess Championship. Stockfish 14 vs. Dragon 2.5.1 Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:10 am
mwyoung wrote:
I have a Tornado outbreak ongoing in my area. If I lose power, or connection. I will restart the match from where we left off. If that happens.
No. I storm chase but I am not chasing today. This is Reed Timmer in the car.
Last edited by mwyoung on Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:50 am; edited 1 time in total
mwyoung
Posts : 880 Join date : 2020-11-25 Location : USA
Subject: Re: Computer Chess Engine Classical Chess Championship. Stockfish 14 vs. Dragon 2.5.1 Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:43 am
Very strong tornados are still ongoing at 9:30pm. There has been much damage. Reports of major damage in some cities. Be safe all!
Uri Blass
Posts : 207 Join date : 2020-11-28
Subject: Re: Computer Chess Engine Classical Chess Championship. Stockfish 14 vs. Dragon 2.5.1 Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:19 pm
I see that the evaluation from the middle of the game of both stupid engines is always 0.00.
I do not believe that they see until the end of the game and I guess that they simply have static evaluation of 0.00 for too many positions.
Even if the result of the game is probably a draw I think that in most cases one side should be evaluated as better.
mwyoung
Posts : 880 Join date : 2020-11-25 Location : USA
Subject: Re: Computer Chess Engine Classical Chess Championship. Stockfish 14 vs. Dragon 2.5.1 Mon Oct 25, 2021 9:21 pm
Uri Blass wrote:
I see that the evaluation from the middle of the game of both stupid engines is always 0.00.
I do not believe that they see until the end of the game and I guess that they simply have static evaluation of 0.00 for too many positions.
Even if the result of the game is probably a draw I think that in most cases one side should be evaluated as better.
I guess that depends on how you look at things. As you might know. What you are seeing is not the native evaluation.
But as you could also know. There are only 3 true evaluations in chess. And a draw is one of them. Anything else is just an assumption by the engine anyways.
As a tester. I don't care one lick what the evaluation says. And that is also why I do not let the engines adjudicate the games they are playing by their score. If their score was always correct. I would not need to run any test.
Admin Admin
Posts : 2608 Join date : 2020-11-17 Location : Netherlands
Subject: Re: Computer Chess Engine Classical Chess Championship. Stockfish 14 vs. Dragon 2.5.1 Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:09 pm
mwyoung wrote:
Very strong tornados are still ongoing at 9:30pm. There has been much damage. Reports of major damage in some cities. Be safe all!
Survived without damage?
mwyoung
Posts : 880 Join date : 2020-11-25 Location : USA
Subject: Re: Computer Chess Engine Classical Chess Championship. Stockfish 14 vs. Dragon 2.5.1 Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:23 pm
Admin wrote:
mwyoung wrote:
Very strong tornados are still ongoing at 9:30pm. There has been much damage. Reports of major damage in some cities. Be safe all!
Survived without damage?
I was lucky. But many people were not. We have much damage around the states. As many tornados were on the ground at the same time. Here is what some of it looked like. More reports are still coming. But are warning system is very good in the Midwest of the USA. As this is common. So no loss of life in this tornado outbreak.
Admin likes this post
mwyoung
Posts : 880 Join date : 2020-11-25 Location : USA
Subject: Re: Computer Chess Engine Classical Chess Championship. Stockfish 14 vs. Dragon 2.5.1 Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:34 pm
Here is what is funny about the comments I have been seeing about this match. Many would have you believe any engine can do what Dragon 2.5.1 is doing to Stockfish at long time controls. Stopping Stockfish.
This is just false, and from people that do not test chess engines as I do.
The #3 engine in the world can not do this. Or any of the also here engines of a much lower tier.
Uri Blass
Posts : 207 Join date : 2020-11-28
Subject: Re: Computer Chess Engine Classical Chess Championship. Stockfish 14 vs. Dragon 2.5.1 Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:21 pm
mwyoung wrote:
Here is what is funny about the comments I have been seeing about this match. Many would have you believe any engine can do what Dragon 2.5.1 is doing to Stockfish at long time controls. Stopping Stockfish.
This is just false, and from people that do not test chess engines as I do.
The #3 engine in the world can not do this. Or any of the also here engines of a much lower tier.
How do you know that other engines cannot draw against stockfish14 at 120/40 time control in your conditions? Did you test them?
mwyoung
Posts : 880 Join date : 2020-11-25 Location : USA
Subject: Re: Computer Chess Engine Classical Chess Championship. Stockfish 14 vs. Dragon 2.5.1 Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:36 pm
Uri Blass wrote:
mwyoung wrote:
Here is what is funny about the comments I have been seeing about this match. Many would have you believe any engine can do what Dragon 2.5.1 is doing to Stockfish at long time controls. Stopping Stockfish.
This is just false, and from people that do not test chess engines as I do.
The #3 engine in the world can not do this. Or any of the also here engines of a much lower tier.
How do you know that other engines cannot draw against stockfish14 at 120/40 time control in your conditions? Did you test them?
yes! Have you....
Stockfish wins against everything.
This is the first test with Dragon 2.5.1 at long time controls. If you think another engine can also stop stockfish. Post it here!
And we will test it.
Admin Admin
Posts : 2608 Join date : 2020-11-17 Location : Netherlands
Subject: Re: Computer Chess Engine Classical Chess Championship. Stockfish 14 vs. Dragon 2.5.1 Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:46 am
Sure, drawing against SF14 is one thing, winning is something different.
mwyoung
Posts : 880 Join date : 2020-11-25 Location : USA
Subject: Re: Computer Chess Engine Classical Chess Championship. Stockfish 14 vs. Dragon 2.5.1 Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:53 am
Admin wrote:
Sure, drawing against SF14 is one thing, winning is something different.
And that is a result I have not seen in a long time. The last engine to do this was Lc0. When it was better the SF A/B. If D can hold or win in 24 games.
Uri Blass
Posts : 207 Join date : 2020-11-28
Subject: Re: Computer Chess Engine Classical Chess Championship. Stockfish 14 vs. Dragon 2.5.1 Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:56 am
mwyoung wrote:
Uri Blass wrote:
mwyoung wrote:
Here is what is funny about the comments I have been seeing about this match. Many would have you believe any engine can do what Dragon 2.5.1 is doing to Stockfish at long time controls. Stopping Stockfish.
This is just false, and from people that do not test chess engines as I do.
The #3 engine in the world can not do this. Or any of the also here engines of a much lower tier.
How do you know that other engines cannot draw against stockfish14 at 120/40 time control in your conditions? Did you test them?
yes! Have you....
Stockfish wins against everything.
This is the first test with Dragon 2.5.1 at long time controls. If you think another engine can also stop stockfish. Post it here!
And we will test it.
I think that it may be interesting to test stockfish11 against stockfish14 because stockfish11 is the best or close to the best engine that does not use NNUE.
mwyoung
Posts : 880 Join date : 2020-11-25 Location : USA
Subject: Re: Computer Chess Engine Classical Chess Championship. Stockfish 14 vs. Dragon 2.5.1 Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:01 am
Uri Blass wrote:
mwyoung wrote:
Uri Blass wrote:
mwyoung wrote:
Here is what is funny about the comments I have been seeing about this match. Many would have you believe any engine can do what Dragon 2.5.1 is doing to Stockfish at long time controls. Stopping Stockfish.
This is just false, and from people that do not test chess engines as I do.
The #3 engine in the world can not do this. Or any of the also here engines of a much lower tier.
How do you know that other engines cannot draw against stockfish14 at 120/40 time control in your conditions? Did you test them?
yes! Have you....
Stockfish wins against everything.
This is the first test with Dragon 2.5.1 at long time controls. If you think another engine can also stop stockfish. Post it here!
And we will test it.
I think that it may be interesting to test stockfish11 against stockfish14 because stockfish11 is the best or close to the best engine that does not use NNUE.
I have many times. SF 11 is crushed.
But if that is your engine for a Long time control match. I will play it under the same conditions.
It will be fun to see!
Your match will be played under the exact conditions as this match. As soon as this match is over.
Admin Admin
Posts : 2608 Join date : 2020-11-17 Location : Netherlands
Subject: Re: Computer Chess Engine Classical Chess Championship. Stockfish 14 vs. Dragon 2.5.1 Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:48 am
Does the GUI not have a draw button? If both engines display 0.00 for 5 moves then draw the game. These silly endings are a pain to watch.
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