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 Be less INTP

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TheSelfImprover

TheSelfImprover

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PostSubject: Re: Be less INTP   Be less INTP - Page 3 EmptyMon Feb 01, 2021 3:57 pm

Henk wrote:
I forgot to add a reference what these mbti codes mean. Just a negative one to compensate the positive descriptions which are usually given:

Be less INTP - Page 3 1i8amypcub931

Nice one - added to my archive! Cool
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Henk



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PostSubject: Re: Be less INTP   Be less INTP - Page 3 EmptyFri Feb 05, 2021 11:33 am

This video contains an interesting picture:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTqdM58AbB4&t=110s

For instance explains stress means being overwhelmed or out of control.
Don't know where chart comes from. Remember I posted this earlier in talkchess but forgot to save it.
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Henk



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PostSubject: Re: Be less INTP   Be less INTP - Page 3 EmptyFri Feb 05, 2021 11:39 am

Jung himself talking:

Intuition is perception using unconscience or something. Instead of sensing using senses. Knowledge of intuition comes from hunches.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9Fw-YpHoU8
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TheSelfImprover

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PostSubject: Re: Be less INTP   Be less INTP - Page 3 EmptyFri Feb 05, 2021 10:30 pm

Henk wrote:
Jung himself talking:

Intuition is perception using unconscience or something. Instead of sensing using senses. Knowledge of intuition comes from hunches.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9Fw-YpHoU8


The brain is a pattern recognition machine. To oversimplify, "trained thinking" is when you articulate the pattern (e.g. in words or in a picture): "articulating" here is translating the raw pattern into a high level language (e.g. human speech or art). The better "schooled" you are, the more likely that you will articulate the pattern well, so that other people will be able to understand it clearly. An NN like the brain can spot deeper patterns than it is able to articulate (especially with a long learning time, or a large number of examples like chess NNs have), and this would be my definition of intuition - spotting the pattern without being able to explain it satisfactorily (or working out a good response to the situation you're in without being able to explain why it's a good response).
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TheSelfImprover

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PostSubject: Re: Be less INTP   Be less INTP - Page 3 EmptyFri Feb 05, 2021 10:38 pm

Henk wrote:
This video contains an interesting picture:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTqdM58AbB4&t=110s

For instance explains stress means being overwhelmed or out of control.
Don't know where chart comes from. Remember I posted this earlier in talkchess but forgot to save it.


The chart she's talking about is the "emotion wheel" - link. Here's an example:


Be less INTP - Page 3 Ejuktec3mb8wv51i9nlm
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TheSelfImprover

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PostSubject: Re: Be less INTP   Be less INTP - Page 3 EmptySun Feb 07, 2021 11:05 am

Henk wrote:
This video contains an interesting picture:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTqdM58AbB4&t=110s

For instance explains stress means being overwhelmed or out of control.
Don't know where chart comes from. Remember I posted this earlier in talkchess but forgot to save it.


To answer the "don't know where [the] chart comes from" question: it comes from work done in the field of "Emotion Classification" - link. It's not a "strong science" right now, and I cannot see it becoming one in the foreseeable future for the following reasons:

* the brain has around 10^11 nerve cells, and something like 10^15 synapses, so emotions and their causes are unlikely to be simple enough to illustrate accurately on a drawing IMO

* the brain learns, and no two people have the same learning

There is an argument that there are only a small number of basic emotions (link), but then how do you classify, for example, stress brought on by having more urgent demands being made on you than you can handle right now? Is it "fear"? That's clearly not satisfactory! Hence the emotion wheel image in my previous post has value, even if it doesn't have scientific rigour: it gives us a way of identifying and communicating at a high level what we are feeling.

As I think about this, it's probably true to say that "good ideas" are MUCH more important than "scientific rigour" in terms of personal development - although some background knowledge of how the human brain works probably helps.

As I think about my own journey of improvement right now, persistently finding and applying good ideas seems to be a big part of it.

Self improvement is a skill.

I'll repeat that for emphasis: self improvement is a skill.

I am finding that as my skill level improves, I am better able to spot what good ideas in the field are going to be of value to me. Although it requires persistence, I am actually surprisingly optimistic about the ability of humans to improve themselves these days: the more one learns, the bigger the arsenal of weapons at one's disposal to push forwards!

When I first saw your post on Friday, I didn't think much about the wheel of emotion, but having thought about it a bit more, I'm actually going to print it out and see whether it helps with communication within the family!
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TheSelfImprover

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PostSubject: Re: Be less INTP   Be less INTP - Page 3 EmptySun Feb 07, 2021 11:34 am

One more thing regarding emotions: a good trick is to substitute one emotion for another.

Nervous: heart beat rises, you get a little sweaty, you're anticipating what's coming

Excited: heart beat rises, you get a little sweaty, you're anticipating what's coming

A lot of athletes/actors/public speakers, when they get nervous before a performance, get into the habit of telling themselves they're "excited".

A good weapon to add to your armoury! bounce
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TheSelfImprover

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PostSubject: Re: Be less INTP   Be less INTP - Page 3 EmptyMon Feb 08, 2021 9:59 pm

Hi Henk,

Apologies if you're busy, and this idea would take some time, but how about... a clickable emotion wheel?

On the emotion wheel above (link), for each negative endpoint emotion, clicking on it would pop up an equivalent positive emotion. So clicking on:

Fearful - Threatened - Nervous

...would pop up...

Fearful - Threatened - Nervous ==> Surprised - Excited - Eager

This simple idea, if people used it on a consistent basis, could actually be valuable: negative emotions are very likely to be the biggest single problem in most people's lives: they're now known to be the biggest cause of chronic procrastination (2020 study), and are very likely to be behind many other issues as well: until recent times, the brain's most important job was to keep us safe - but in the modern world, this behaviour is often more of a hindrance than a help.
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Henk



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PostSubject: Re: Be less INTP   Be less INTP - Page 3 EmptyTue Feb 09, 2021 2:04 pm

That would be like neuro linguistic programming.
Personally I hate it if I listen to sad blues music and someone says I should listen to happy disco or gospel music.


[Si-Fi loop: not in the mood. By the way ISTP has Si as a witch(6th function).
I am still accused of being an ISTJ by english version of 16 personalities test.
But not likely for ISTJ have normally no interest for MBTI stuff.

Si-Fi loop holds for ISTJ and INFP.

Currently if find Archetype more interesting. Looks like there are 12 archetypes instead of 16 personalities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archetype
]


Last edited by Henk on Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:21 pm; edited 2 times in total
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TheSelfImprover

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PostSubject: Re: Be less INTP   Be less INTP - Page 3 EmptyTue Feb 09, 2021 4:26 pm

Henk wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archetype


Interesting: just on the basis of the 12 titles (link), I'm going to classify as follows:

Henk: innocent

Ed: rebel (obviously!  Smile )

Me: sage (maybe with a hint of jester Smile )
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TheSelfImprover

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PostSubject: Re: Be less INTP   Be less INTP - Page 3 EmptyTue Feb 09, 2021 8:44 pm

I've made that emotion wheel (link) my desktop background now. The more I look at it, the more maddening it gets!

To add to the two existing problems already mentioned (the human brain is too complex for clean emotional classifications, and it depends on learning experience, which is different for all of us), two more:

1. the wheel is a tree presented as concentric circles: each level one branch has exactly two leaves (needed to make the wheel look clean). It should really be a graph rather than a tree - but then it wouldn't look anywhere near as inviting.

2. most maddening of all: the more you look at it, even accepting it for what it is - a rough approximation fitted to a rigid format, the more you realise that it's just not right!

However, looking at it is still a good investment of time IMO: I've never seen any other classification of emotions that's anywhere near as good a combination of thoughtful work combined with it being so inviting to stare at. It is simultaneously beautiful and useful, and the accuracy may well be "good enough" most of the time.
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TheSelfImprover

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PostSubject: Re: Be less INTP   Be less INTP - Page 3 EmptyFri Feb 12, 2021 10:28 pm

After she finished writing world beating micro computer chess programs, Kathe Spracklen did some interesting work in the field of personality. She used SPSS (yes - SPSS - the 1968 statistics program that's still going! - link) to show that the matching law, which works very well with animal behaviour, also works well with certain aspects of juvenile delinquent (= "bad boy") behaviour. In particular, the way these kids joke/quip with each other is predictive of their future behaviour.

Ed provided an interview that she and her husband Dan did - link: the part relating to the matching law is at 43 minutes (there's an issue with the synchronisation between sound and image, so you'll be listening more than watching).

Enjoy!
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Henk



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PostSubject: Re: Be less INTP   Be less INTP - Page 3 EmptySun Feb 14, 2021 2:41 pm

TheSelfImprover wrote:
Henk wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archetype


Interesting: just on the basis of the 12 titles (link), I'm going to classify as follows:

Henk: innocent

Ed: rebel (obviously!  Smile )

Me: sage (maybe with a hint of jester Smile )

Just did this short test. But questions not so easy to answer.
https://www.mindtime.com/

My result: truthseeker

Living in the past, detail oriented.

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TheSelfImprover

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PostSubject: Re: Be less INTP   Be less INTP - Page 3 EmptySun Feb 14, 2021 3:14 pm

Henk wrote:
Just did this short test. But questions not so easy to answer.
https://www.mindtime.com/

My result: truthseeker

Living in the past, detail oriented.


Just did the test super-quickly. As ever, the problem with me doing any kind of personality test is that my result is too close to the centre for the outcome to be useful:


Be less INTP - Page 3 Mindti10


Be less INTP - Page 3 Explor10


Actually, looking at what they say about the Explorer, I can identify with it: "entrepreneurial, curious, open-minded, insightful, experimental, abstract thinker, sceptical".

That is a lot how I see myself!
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Henk



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PostSubject: Re: Be less INTP   Be less INTP - Page 3 EmptyFri Feb 19, 2021 3:19 pm

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TheSelfImprover

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PostSubject: Re: Be less INTP   Be less INTP - Page 3 EmptyWed Mar 03, 2021 12:26 am

Men who are insecure in their masculinity are more likely to act aggressively - link.

Falls into the "you knew it, but now a study has proven it" category. Smile

Now calm down, men!!! Laughing
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Henk



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PostSubject: Re: Be less INTP   Be less INTP - Page 3 EmptySat Mar 06, 2021 11:21 am

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TheSelfImprover

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PostSubject: Re: Be less INTP   Be less INTP - Page 3 EmptySat Mar 06, 2021 11:34 am

Henk wrote:
Only four easy questions:



Most fun MBPT test ever! Scored me as INTJ. Had the last question been about my study, then right now I'd be INTP - the very thing I'm supposed to be less of according to this thread's title!
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TheSelfImprover

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PostSubject: Re: Be less INTP   Be less INTP - Page 3 EmptyMon Mar 08, 2021 12:30 pm

"It’s Probably Time To Stop Taking Personality Tests" - link (my assessment: great title and fully correct statement - shame about the article).
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Henk



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PostSubject: Re: Be less INTP   Be less INTP - Page 3 EmptyMon Mar 15, 2021 12:57 pm

Crashcourse mbti typing. Easy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf5CtwVqowo
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Henk



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PostSubject: Re: Be less INTP   Be less INTP - Page 3 EmptyMon Mar 15, 2021 1:04 pm

Crashcourse mbti typing. Easy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf5CtwVqowo

IJ/EP : talk about what is happening: information, systems, things
EJ/IP : talk about people and decision making: what are people doing and why do they make that decision
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PostSubject: Re: Be less INTP   Be less INTP - Page 3 EmptySun Apr 18, 2021 2:59 pm

The first jung test on this website probably worst personality test.
Problem is you have to choose between two possible answers.
I got INFJ ?? with scores 100, 64, 64, 64. I am so empathic (ridiculous)

https://www.idrlabs.com/test.php
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TheSelfImprover

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PostSubject: Re: Be less INTP   Be less INTP - Page 3 EmptySun Apr 18, 2021 4:04 pm

At least it's not labelling me a fucking INTP! cheers

Be less INTP - Page 3 Infp10
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PostSubject: Re: Be less INTP   Be less INTP - Page 3 EmptySun Apr 18, 2021 4:34 pm

And we thought you were ISTP !

There are three Jung tests on this website. Last one labelled me INTP. Second one INFP/INTP.

According to C.S. Joseph:
INFJ : interest, affiliative, abstract, direct, movement, responding, finisher
INFP :  interest, affiliative, abstract, informative, control,  responding, background
INTP :  systematic, pragmatic, abstract, informative, control,  responding, background
ISTP :  interest, pragmatic, concrete, direct, movement,  responding, finisher

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tf9Ew4Nkzo8

But Eric Strauss says C.S. Joseph does not understand intuition.
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TheSelfImprover

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PostSubject: Re: Be less INTP   Be less INTP - Page 3 EmptyMon Apr 26, 2021 2:54 pm

Have you tried the DISC indicator - link? For me, gives much more valuable insight than your favoured MBPT indicator. My score:

46% dominance
22% steadiness
19% influence
13% compliance
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