Alternative Chess Test 4

To make it completely clear here is the salient part of the original announcement,
"Fat Fritz 2 - bigger and better
Fat Fritz 2 is trained and developed using this NNUE technology, running inside the open source Stockfish binary, but with a completely new and different neural network that differs significantly from Stockfish's on a couple of key points:

The first is that the evaluations and positions did not come from a brute force engine such as Stockfish or Komodo, but rather came from our original neural network Fat Fritz.
After all, if an elite neural network could be trained from just Stockfish evaluations, imagine what it could do with the sophisticated knowledge of Fat Fritz! To this end, some four billion positions were generated on thousands of hours of the most powerful graphics cards to train it.

The second key difference is that the neural network in Fat Fritz 2 is double the size of Stockfish 12, using 512 neurons instead of 256, offering the opportunity for double the knowledge and understanding."

So, if I take the SF code, ask Dietrich for a net, release it and ask 25 bucks/euro for it, that's ethical?

Admin wrote:

So, if I take the SF code, ask Dietrich for a net, release it and ask 25 bucks/euro for it, that's ethical?

Yes.

Of course, Albert did much more than that.

Companies buy Linux from Redhat for thousands of dollars. You can download Centos for free and it is the same thing. But they are getting something extra so it is not a bad deal.

The GPL license says you can sell GPL software.
If you don't like the license, use something else.

Sorry but here we disagree. If you get something for free and sell it, for money, its IMO money made out of nothing,

Take ed schroeder or chris w.

They programmed their whole life and spent billions of hours of electricity to come out with a professional product.

So if the customer buys it, he can be sure it is worth something,


Ed schroeder came into the scene maybe 1985 or before … his first product for HG was mephisto rebell in 1986 after the championship in cologne.

I witnessed how ed and jan louwman fought the big mainframes with an accelerater card and a hair fan.

Chris whittington is even earlier.

He began selling his engine on sinclair zx spectrum with the name superchess.
Depending on the machine 16 KB or 48 KB his engine came up to superchess 3.5 and to be honest, is not much different to anything he did so far.


Its always the same with him.


So these guys sold you something they worked on a lifetime basis ….
And what albert did is something different. He sold something others did,

Look here:
https://www.mysql.com/products/

MySQL is open source and you can also download it for free.

Mclane wrote:

Sorry but here we disagree. If younget something for free and sell it, for money, its IMO money made out of nothing,

The license is clear. If you follow the rules there is nothing wrong with it.
You don't have to like it. I suggest you should not buy things that are GPL if you don't want to do it.

Dozens of companies are making millions of dollars selling GPL software.

Mclane wrote:

Sorry but here we disagree. If you get something for free and sell it, for money, its IMO money made out of nothing,

Take ed schroeder or chris w.

They programmed their whole life and spent billions of hours of electricity to come out with a professional product.

So if the customer buys it, he can be sure it is worth something,

There are millions of dollars of effort in things like MySQL, Linux, and even Stockfish.

Those tools are worth something.

Normally, when someone sells GPL software you are paying for something extra.
This is true in the case of both FF and FF2

You don't like the rules? That's fine.
But you are dead wrong to condemn someone for following them.
In fact, it's really stupid, IMO.

Albert is not a criminal for following the rules of law.
People who condemn and criticize can step over to criminal behavior when they do it publicly and in print.

Put another way, Albert is not the criminal. Those who condemn him are the criminals.

Dann Corbit wrote:

Admin wrote:

So, if I take the SF code, ask Dietrich for a net, release it and ask 25 bucks/euro for it, that's ethical?

Yes.

Of course, Albert did much more than that.

Companies buy Linux from Redhat for thousands of dollars.  You can download Centos for free and it is the same thing.  But they are getting something extra so it is not a bad deal.

The GPL license says you can sell GPL software.
If you don't like the license, use something else.

It might be legal, but it is also unfair competition. Remember all the drama of the R/F case, copying (not that it happened) is unfair competition.

So i am a criminal because i condemn his „work“

Do you have the slightest idea what Chris Whittington did to make money out of his chess engine.
He founded a company. Hired programmers. They worked for years on products.
Chris was in charge for these people. These programmers had families and had to pay for their rents and their homes. Same with ed schroeder. With any employee you hire you are in charge for his family and his life too.

You cannot ignore these things. [mod]
Chris w. And ed schroeder were always in charge for their company and their workers.
I know no company who was NOT caring for the workers.

I worked e.g, for Schach Niggemann, a company selling chess stuff.
And guenther, i had many fights with him, but he cared for his workers.
Its easy to take something and sell it if you are not in charge for anything,

It is not unfair competition. It is following the rules. If you do not like the rules, then choose something else.

How hard is it to understand that when you use a tool as intended by its license that is fine?

Today, people commit libel, slander, and defamation of character and think they are doing the world a service.

It is not hard to understand the GPL rules. People have been selling GPL software for decades and the company I work for spends millions of dollars paying for GPL software.

If you don't like it, there is nothing wrong with that. But don't criticize someone else because you have a defect in your understanding of a simple idea.

Albert is following the rules of law and using the tool AS INTENDED and AS DEFINED CLEARLY in the license.

To criticize him for that is stupidity

This is maybe a cultural thing. Here in europe we see things different then in capitalistic USA where people  have no rights and no health assurance and have to sleep outside because the government does not care for them. Here where i live any person has the right for an appartment and for money to finance living style.
Noone is on the streets but those beeing mad alcoholic. Any other person has the RIGHT to get a home and enough money to pay rent and food.

Maybe in YOUR culture it is normal that people male money out of nothing because otherwise nobody helps them.
Here in europe any person has the right to get help.
No one sleeps on the street because Society is not helping. Mainly the people on the streets are drug addicts and alcoholics.
But the rest has a right to get money to get the life financed.
So no european needs to betray.

Mclane wrote:

So i am a criminal because i condemn his „work“

You are a criminal if you make aspersions against the character of Albert Silver in public or in print when he has done nothing wrong.

If you have done that, then you are a criminal, unlike Albert who has done nothing wrong whatsoever.
The imagined wrongdoing comes from utter failure to understand a simple document.
This same selling of GPL software is a multi-million dollar enterprise and supports thousands of families all over the earth

Albert, on the other hand, has done absolutely nothing wrong. He has followed the rule of law and followed the license agreement.

Your failure to see his added value is another lack in your comprehension, but I do not worry about it.

The hounds baying for Albert's head on a pole are all bad people.
I think Albert should sue them for libel and slander for the things they have done.

My advice is to get over it and get over yourselves.
You self-righteous, pompous, condemning twits -- screaming for revenge against the innocent.

That is the very definition of "idiot"

Dann Corbit wrote:

Mclane wrote:

So i am a criminal because i condemn his „work“

You are a criminal if you make aspersions against the character of Albert Silver in public or in print when he has done nothing wrong.

If you have done that, then you are a criminal, unlike Albert who has done nothing wrong whatsoever.
The imagined wrongdoing comes from utter failure to understand a simple document.
This same selling of GPL software is a multi-million dollar enterprise and supports thousands of families all over the earth

Albert, on the other hand, has done absolutely nothing wrong.  He has followed the rule of law and followed the license agreement.

Your failure to see his added value is another lack in your comprehension, but I do not worry about it.

The hounds baying for Albert's head on a pole are all bad people.
I think Albert should sue them for libel and slander for the things they have done.

My advice is to get over it and get over yourselves.
You self-righteous, pompous, condemning twits -- screaming for revenge against the innocent.

That is the very definition of "idiot"

Ok i give it another try:

Capitalists i met in my life all had more morals then AS.

I mentioned CW, ES and GN,

And all those people i met cared for their workers.

You call me idiot because i criticise somebody who has made money out of nothing, related with the capitalists i met who made money out of thousands of hourse work and having a company beeing in charge for their workers.

You claim he has done nothing wrong.


I will tell you something,
In your country people die because the governemnt gives a shit for them.

Here in my country we have a different moral system.
And therefore we evaluate the ethics and moral at work in a different way,

Maybe it is ok in your culture,
But here we call these people differently.

Millions of dollars in sales of GPL software:
https://www.marketwatch.com/press-release/linux-os-market-share-2021-is-booming-across-the-globe-by-share-size-growth-segments-and-forecast-to-2027-2021-05-17

Are those who sell Linux bad people too?

Mclane wrote:

Dann Corbit wrote:

Mclane wrote:

So i am a criminal because i condemn his „work“

You are a criminal if you make aspersions against the character of Albert Silver in public or in print when he has done nothing wrong.

If you have done that, then you are a criminal, unlike Albert who has done nothing wrong whatsoever.
The imagined wrongdoing comes from utter failure to understand a simple document.
This same selling of GPL software is a multi-million dollar enterprise and supports thousands of families all over the earth

Albert, on the other hand, has done absolutely nothing wrong.  He has followed the rule of law and followed the license agreement.

Your failure to see his added value is another lack in your comprehension, but I do not worry about it.

The hounds baying for Albert's head on a pole are all bad people.
I think Albert should sue them for libel and slander for the things they have done.

My advice is to get over it and get over yourselves.
You self-righteous, pompous, condemning twits -- screaming for revenge against the innocent.

That is the very definition of "idiot"

Ok i give it another try:

Capitalists i met in my life all had more morals then AS.

I mentioned CW, ES and GN,

And all those people i met cared for their workers.

You call me idiot because i criticise somebody who has made money out of nothing, related with the capitalists i met who made money out of thousands of hourse work and having a company beeing in charge for their workers.

You claim he has done nothing wrong.


I will tell you something,
In your country people die because the governemnt gives a shit for them.

Here in my country we have a different moral system.
And therefore we evaluate the ethics and moral at work in a different way,

Maybe it is ok in your culture,
But here we call these people differently.

Your "other tries" are fruitless because you condemn someone due to your simple lack of comprehension.
How am I supposed to "get it" when you are the one who does not understand?

Put simply, you are condemning a man for following the directions, and you are saying that the directions are wrong.
Your complaint is not with the man following the directions, but the one who wrote the directions in the first place.
That too, is nonsense, because the man who wrote the directions can write anything he chooses.

So you condemn what you do not understand and foolishly imagine others are bad people because they do understand.

I think you have not read anything I wrote.  Or if you did read it, you simply are not very good at understanding simple concepts.

Maybe if you read this it will help:
https://wpmanageninja.com/should-you-get-a-pro-product-under-gnu-gpl-license/

Commercial GPL database systems:
https://mariadb.com/pricing/
https://www.mysql.com/products/
AGPL license:
https://www.mongodb.com/pricing

These are among the most popular database systems in the world

You are a victim of the capitalistic society.
IMO your kind of people are parasites.

Here in europe we would burn your kind in flames.
Like the catholics did with women. In medieval.

What you claim is „he did nothing wrong“.

He did nothing wrong on your decadent continent.
But your country made money by letting slaves die and work to build the whole society.
You stole the whole continent from indians.
And then you kidnapped black people from africa to work the dirty jobs that made your country rich. And then you put those people into prison.

That is what YOUR kind of people call moral.

With those values we would put your kind of people in a hot fire and burn your bones. Your capitalistic bones. In a fire.

Because you have no morals.

Mclane wrote:

You are a victim of the capitalistic society.
IMO your kind o people are parasites.

Here in europe we would burn your kind in flames.

Here in the united states I would accept you as my brother

To destroy someone who thinks differently than you do is a strange idea to me.
I really do not understand it.
Germany has a habit of that. Maybe it is an inherited trait?

Dann Corbit wrote:

Mclane wrote:

You are a victim of the capitalistic society.
IMO your kind o people are parasites.

Here in europe we would burn your kind in flames.

Here in the united states I would accept you as my brother

I will never travel in a country like yours.
I do not travel into fascistic Societies. No matter if it is north corea. China, Russia, turkey or usa or south America.

Fascistic societies are maybe good for mengele or wernherr von braun. But i will not take a step into these fascistic societies.
We will never be brothers.
Because your kind of people will die in the flood.

Dann Corbit wrote:

To destroy someone who thinks differently than you do is a strange idea to me.
I really do not understand it.
Germany has a habit of that.  Maybe it is an inherited trait?

In germany any person gets his existance paid by the state.
No one needs to sleep on the streets or live in his car.

The only people who live on the streets are criminals and mad people and alcoholics who have no capacities to fill out the documents it needs to get money for free.

Here nobody needs to work 2 jobs or 3.
The people get enough money to exists even with NO job.
They get the money because the state sees them as HUMAN BEEINGS and any human beeing deserves that he gets respect and money to fiance his living.

So nobody needs to betray others. And the people who do, are criminals.