ProDeo
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.
ProDeo

Computer Chess
 
HomeHome  CalendarCalendar  Latest imagesLatest images  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  MemberlistMemberlist  UsergroupsUsergroups  RegisterRegister  Log in  

 

 opening theory without opening book by stockfish

Go down 
3 posters
AuthorMessage
Uri Blass




Posts : 144
Join date : 2020-11-28

opening theory without opening book by stockfish Empty
PostSubject: opening theory without opening book by stockfish   opening theory without opening book by stockfish EmptyMon Nov 30, 2020 2:57 am

part of the analysis of the opening position
both 1.e4 and 1.d4 are reasonable moves.

Stockfish_20112916_x64_bmi2:
Found 145 tablebases
NNUE evaluation using nn-62ef826d1a6d.nnue enabled

43/58 05:05 2,531,508k 8,280k +0.22 e2-e4 e7-e5 Ng1-f3 Nb8-c6 Bf1-b5 Ng8-f6 O-O Nf6xe4 Rf1-e1 Ne4-d6 Nf3xe5 Bf8-e7 Bb5-f1 Nc6xe5 Re1xe5 O-O d2-d4 Be7-f6 Re5-e1 Rf8-e8 c2-c3 Re8xe1 Qd1xe1 Nd6-e8 a2-a4 a7-a5 Bc1-f4 d7-d5 Bf1-d3 g7-g6 Nb1-d2 Ne8-g7 Nd2-f3 c7-c6 Qe1-d2 Ng7-h5 Bf4-e3 Nh5-g7 Ra1-e1 Bc8-f5 h2-h3 Bf6-e7 Be3-f4 Bf5xd3 Qd2xd3 Ng7-e6 Bf4-d2 Be7-d6 Kg1-h1

49/63 24:07 11,942,448k 8,252k +0.21 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3 e7-e6 c2-c4 d7-d5 Nb1-c3 Bf8-b4 Qd1-a4+ Nb8-c6 a2-a3 Bb4xc3+ b2xc3 Bc8-d7 c4xd5 e6xd5 Bc1-g5 h7-h6 Bg5-h4 O-O e2-e3 Nc6-e5 Bh4xf6 Bd7xa4 Bf6xd8 Ne5xf3+ g2xf3 Rf8xd8 Ke1-d2 Rd8-d6 Bf1-d3 Ra8-c8 Ra1-b1 b7-b6 e3-e4 c7-c5 e4-e5 Rd6-c6 Rh1-c1 g7-g6 f3-f4 c5xd4 c3xd4 Rc6xc1 Rb1xc1 Rc8xc1 Kd2xc1 Ba4-d7 Bd3-a6 g6-g5 f4xg5 h6xg5 Ba6-d3 Bd7-e6 Kc1-d2 Kg8-f8 Kd2-e3

second analysis:

Stockfish_20112916_x64_bmi2:
Found 145 tablebases
NNUE evaluation using nn-62ef826d1a6d.nnue enabled

42/54 04:41 2,147,515k 7,636k +0.21 e2-e4 e7-e5 Ng1-f3 Nb8-c6 Bf1-b5 Ng8-f6 O-O Nf6xe4 Rf1-e1 Ne4-d6 Nf3xe5 Bf8-e7 Bb5-f1 Nc6xe5 Re1xe5 O-O d2-d4 Be7-f6 Re5-e1 Rf8-e8 Bc1-f4 Re8xe1 Qd1xe1 Nd6-e8 c2-c3 d7-d5 a2-a4 a7-a5 Bf1-d3 g7-g6 Nb1-d2 Ne8-g7 Nd2-f3 Bc8-f5 Bd3xf5 Ng7xf5 Qe1-d2 Qd8-d7 g2-g3 Ra8-e8 h2-h4 c7-c6 h4-h5 g6xh5 Bf4-e5

47/56 19:05 8,801,654k 7,684k +0.25 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 c2-c4 e7-e6 Ng1-f3 d7-d5 Nb1-c3 Bf8-e7 Bc1-f4 O-O e2-e3 Nb8-d7 c4-c5 c7-c6 b2-b4 b7-b6 Bf1-e2 a7-a5 a2-a3 Bc8-a6 O-O Qd8-c8 Be2xa6 Ra8xa6 Qd1-c2 Qc8-b7 Rf1-b1 a5xb4 a3xb4 Rf8-a8 Ra1-a4 h7-h6 h2-h3 b6-b5 Ra4xa6 Ra8xa6 Nf3-d2 Qb7-a8 Nd2-b3 Nf6-e8 Bf4-g3 Be7-d8 Nb3-c1 Nd7-f8 Nc1-d3 Nf8-g6 Rb1-c1 Ne8-f6 Nd3-f4 Ng6xf4 Bg3xf4 Nf6-d7
48/60 21:52 10,080,636k 7,680k +0.25 Ng1-f3 d7-d5 d2-d4 e7-e6 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 Nb1-c3 Bf8-e7 Bc1-f4 O-O e2-e3 Nb8-d7 c4-c5 c7-c6 b2-b4 b7-b6 Bf1-e2 a7-a5 a2-a3 Bc8-a6 O-O Qd8-c8 Be2xa6 Ra8xa6 Qd1-c2 Qc8-b7 Rf1-b1 a5xb4 a3xb4 Rf8-a8 Ra1xa6 Ra8xa6 h2-h3 b6-b5 Nf3-d2 Qb7-a8 Nd2-b3 Nf6-e8 Rb1-b2 h7-h6 Bf4-g3 Be7-d8 Nb3-c1 Ne8-f6 Kg1-h2 Nf6-e8 Nc1-d3 Ra6-a3 Rb2-a2 Ra3xa2 Nc3xa2

conclusion I can get at reasonable depth 1.e4 1.d4 1.Nf3 with more than 2*10^9 nodes and less than 1.2*10^10 nodes so they are theory moves that stockfish choose.

I may get more moves if I repeat the analysis.

Now it is possible to analyze everyone of the positions after 1.e4 1.d4 1.Nf3
to continue theory and continue in this way.

questions
1)suppose you give stockfish analyze from clear hash every position in this way 10 times how many lines you are going to get at for the first n plies(for the first ply I get at least 3)?
2)Are we going to get 100% draws or maybe one line is going to be not draw?
3)Is there a tool to do it automatically because I do not intend to do it manually inspite of my interest in the results?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
mwyoung

mwyoung


Posts : 682
Join date : 2020-11-25
Location : USA

opening theory without opening book by stockfish Empty
PostSubject: Re: opening theory without opening book by stockfish   opening theory without opening book by stockfish EmptyMon Nov 30, 2020 3:41 am

Uri Blass wrote:
part of the analysis of the opening position
both 1.e4 and 1.d4 are reasonable moves.

Stockfish_20112916_x64_bmi2:
Found 145 tablebases
NNUE evaluation using nn-62ef826d1a6d.nnue enabled
 
43/58 05:05 2,531,508k 8,280k +0.22 e2-e4 e7-e5 Ng1-f3 Nb8-c6 Bf1-b5 Ng8-f6 O-O Nf6xe4 Rf1-e1 Ne4-d6 Nf3xe5 Bf8-e7 Bb5-f1 Nc6xe5 Re1xe5 O-O d2-d4 Be7-f6 Re5-e1 Rf8-e8 c2-c3 Re8xe1 Qd1xe1 Nd6-e8 a2-a4 a7-a5 Bc1-f4 d7-d5 Bf1-d3 g7-g6 Nb1-d2 Ne8-g7 Nd2-f3 c7-c6 Qe1-d2 Ng7-h5 Bf4-e3 Nh5-g7 Ra1-e1 Bc8-f5 h2-h3 Bf6-e7 Be3-f4 Bf5xd3 Qd2xd3 Ng7-e6 Bf4-d2 Be7-d6 Kg1-h1
 
49/63 24:07 11,942,448k 8,252k +0.21 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3 e7-e6 c2-c4 d7-d5 Nb1-c3 Bf8-b4 Qd1-a4+ Nb8-c6 a2-a3 Bb4xc3+ b2xc3 Bc8-d7 c4xd5 e6xd5 Bc1-g5 h7-h6 Bg5-h4 O-O e2-e3 Nc6-e5 Bh4xf6 Bd7xa4 Bf6xd8 Ne5xf3+ g2xf3 Rf8xd8 Ke1-d2 Rd8-d6 Bf1-d3 Ra8-c8 Ra1-b1 b7-b6 e3-e4 c7-c5 e4-e5 Rd6-c6 Rh1-c1 g7-g6 f3-f4 c5xd4 c3xd4 Rc6xc1 Rb1xc1 Rc8xc1 Kd2xc1 Ba4-d7 Bd3-a6 g6-g5 f4xg5 h6xg5 Ba6-d3 Bd7-e6 Kc1-d2 Kg8-f8 Kd2-e3

second analysis:

Stockfish_20112916_x64_bmi2:
Found 145 tablebases
NNUE evaluation using nn-62ef826d1a6d.nnue enabled
 
42/54 04:41 2,147,515k 7,636k +0.21 e2-e4 e7-e5 Ng1-f3 Nb8-c6 Bf1-b5 Ng8-f6 O-O Nf6xe4 Rf1-e1 Ne4-d6 Nf3xe5 Bf8-e7 Bb5-f1 Nc6xe5 Re1xe5 O-O d2-d4 Be7-f6 Re5-e1 Rf8-e8 Bc1-f4 Re8xe1 Qd1xe1 Nd6-e8 c2-c3 d7-d5 a2-a4 a7-a5 Bf1-d3 g7-g6 Nb1-d2 Ne8-g7 Nd2-f3 Bc8-f5 Bd3xf5 Ng7xf5 Qe1-d2 Qd8-d7 g2-g3 Ra8-e8 h2-h4 c7-c6 h4-h5 g6xh5 Bf4-e5
 
47/56 19:05 8,801,654k 7,684k +0.25 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 c2-c4 e7-e6 Ng1-f3 d7-d5 Nb1-c3 Bf8-e7 Bc1-f4 O-O e2-e3 Nb8-d7 c4-c5 c7-c6 b2-b4 b7-b6 Bf1-e2 a7-a5 a2-a3 Bc8-a6 O-O Qd8-c8 Be2xa6 Ra8xa6 Qd1-c2 Qc8-b7 Rf1-b1 a5xb4 a3xb4 Rf8-a8 Ra1-a4 h7-h6 h2-h3 b6-b5 Ra4xa6 Ra8xa6 Nf3-d2 Qb7-a8 Nd2-b3 Nf6-e8 Bf4-g3 Be7-d8 Nb3-c1 Nd7-f8 Nc1-d3 Nf8-g6 Rb1-c1 Ne8-f6 Nd3-f4 Ng6xf4 Bg3xf4 Nf6-d7
48/60 21:52 10,080,636k 7,680k +0.25 Ng1-f3 d7-d5 d2-d4 e7-e6 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 Nb1-c3 Bf8-e7 Bc1-f4 O-O e2-e3 Nb8-d7 c4-c5 c7-c6 b2-b4 b7-b6 Bf1-e2 a7-a5 a2-a3 Bc8-a6 O-O Qd8-c8 Be2xa6 Ra8xa6 Qd1-c2 Qc8-b7 Rf1-b1 a5xb4 a3xb4 Rf8-a8 Ra1xa6 Ra8xa6 h2-h3 b6-b5 Nf3-d2 Qb7-a8 Nd2-b3 Nf6-e8 Rb1-b2 h7-h6 Bf4-g3 Be7-d8 Nb3-c1 Ne8-f6 Kg1-h2 Nf6-e8 Nc1-d3 Ra6-a3 Rb2-a2 Ra3xa2 Nc3xa2

conclusion I can get at reasonable depth 1.e4 1.d4 1.Nf3 with more than 2*10^9 nodes and less than 1.2*10^10 nodes so they are theory moves that stockfish choose.

I may get more moves if I repeat the analysis.

Now it is possible to analyze everyone of the positions after 1.e4 1.d4 1.Nf3
to continue theory and continue in this way.

questions
1)suppose you give stockfish analyze from clear hash every position in this way 10 times how many lines you are going to get at for the first n plies(for the first ply I get at least 3)?
2)Are we going to get 100% draws or maybe one line is going to be not draw?
3)Is there a tool to do it automatically because I do not intend to do it manually inspite of my interest in the results?

Is it possible no. You can not analyze everyone of the positions after any first move. Using Stockfish, it is a type B searcher. So you can not assume it evaluations are correct. No matter the results, even if you could do this automatically with unlimited time.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
kai_laskos

kai_laskos


Posts : 37
Join date : 2020-11-17

opening theory without opening book by stockfish Empty
PostSubject: Re: opening theory without opening book by stockfish   opening theory without opening book by stockfish EmptyMon Nov 30, 2020 2:17 pm

Uri Blass wrote:
part of the analysis of the opening position
both 1.e4 and 1.d4 are reasonable moves.

Stockfish_20112916_x64_bmi2:
Found 145 tablebases
NNUE evaluation using nn-62ef826d1a6d.nnue enabled
 
43/58 05:05 2,531,508k 8,280k +0.22 e2-e4 e7-e5 Ng1-f3 Nb8-c6 Bf1-b5 Ng8-f6 O-O Nf6xe4 Rf1-e1 Ne4-d6 Nf3xe5 Bf8-e7 Bb5-f1 Nc6xe5 Re1xe5 O-O d2-d4 Be7-f6 Re5-e1 Rf8-e8 c2-c3 Re8xe1 Qd1xe1 Nd6-e8 a2-a4 a7-a5 Bc1-f4 d7-d5 Bf1-d3 g7-g6 Nb1-d2 Ne8-g7 Nd2-f3 c7-c6 Qe1-d2 Ng7-h5 Bf4-e3 Nh5-g7 Ra1-e1 Bc8-f5 h2-h3 Bf6-e7 Be3-f4 Bf5xd3 Qd2xd3 Ng7-e6 Bf4-d2 Be7-d6 Kg1-h1
 
49/63 24:07 11,942,448k 8,252k +0.21 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3 e7-e6 c2-c4 d7-d5 Nb1-c3 Bf8-b4 Qd1-a4+ Nb8-c6 a2-a3 Bb4xc3+ b2xc3 Bc8-d7 c4xd5 e6xd5 Bc1-g5 h7-h6 Bg5-h4 O-O e2-e3 Nc6-e5 Bh4xf6 Bd7xa4 Bf6xd8 Ne5xf3+ g2xf3 Rf8xd8 Ke1-d2 Rd8-d6 Bf1-d3 Ra8-c8 Ra1-b1 b7-b6 e3-e4 c7-c5 e4-e5 Rd6-c6 Rh1-c1 g7-g6 f3-f4 c5xd4 c3xd4 Rc6xc1 Rb1xc1 Rc8xc1 Kd2xc1 Ba4-d7 Bd3-a6 g6-g5 f4xg5 h6xg5 Ba6-d3 Bd7-e6 Kc1-d2 Kg8-f8 Kd2-e3

second analysis:

Stockfish_20112916_x64_bmi2:
Found 145 tablebases
NNUE evaluation using nn-62ef826d1a6d.nnue enabled
 
42/54 04:41 2,147,515k 7,636k +0.21 e2-e4 e7-e5 Ng1-f3 Nb8-c6 Bf1-b5 Ng8-f6 O-O Nf6xe4 Rf1-e1 Ne4-d6 Nf3xe5 Bf8-e7 Bb5-f1 Nc6xe5 Re1xe5 O-O d2-d4 Be7-f6 Re5-e1 Rf8-e8 Bc1-f4 Re8xe1 Qd1xe1 Nd6-e8 c2-c3 d7-d5 a2-a4 a7-a5 Bf1-d3 g7-g6 Nb1-d2 Ne8-g7 Nd2-f3 Bc8-f5 Bd3xf5 Ng7xf5 Qe1-d2 Qd8-d7 g2-g3 Ra8-e8 h2-h4 c7-c6 h4-h5 g6xh5 Bf4-e5
 
47/56 19:05 8,801,654k 7,684k +0.25 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 c2-c4 e7-e6 Ng1-f3 d7-d5 Nb1-c3 Bf8-e7 Bc1-f4 O-O e2-e3 Nb8-d7 c4-c5 c7-c6 b2-b4 b7-b6 Bf1-e2 a7-a5 a2-a3 Bc8-a6 O-O Qd8-c8 Be2xa6 Ra8xa6 Qd1-c2 Qc8-b7 Rf1-b1 a5xb4 a3xb4 Rf8-a8 Ra1-a4 h7-h6 h2-h3 b6-b5 Ra4xa6 Ra8xa6 Nf3-d2 Qb7-a8 Nd2-b3 Nf6-e8 Bf4-g3 Be7-d8 Nb3-c1 Nd7-f8 Nc1-d3 Nf8-g6 Rb1-c1 Ne8-f6 Nd3-f4 Ng6xf4 Bg3xf4 Nf6-d7
48/60 21:52 10,080,636k 7,680k +0.25 Ng1-f3 d7-d5 d2-d4 e7-e6 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 Nb1-c3 Bf8-e7 Bc1-f4 O-O e2-e3 Nb8-d7 c4-c5 c7-c6 b2-b4 b7-b6 Bf1-e2 a7-a5 a2-a3 Bc8-a6 O-O Qd8-c8 Be2xa6 Ra8xa6 Qd1-c2 Qc8-b7 Rf1-b1 a5xb4 a3xb4 Rf8-a8 Ra1xa6 Ra8xa6 h2-h3 b6-b5 Nf3-d2 Qb7-a8 Nd2-b3 Nf6-e8 Rb1-b2 h7-h6 Bf4-g3 Be7-d8 Nb3-c1 Ne8-f6 Kg1-h2 Nf6-e8 Nc1-d3 Ra6-a3 Rb2-a2 Ra3xa2 Nc3xa2

conclusion I can get at reasonable depth 1.e4 1.d4 1.Nf3 with more than 2*10^9 nodes and less than 1.2*10^10 nodes so they are theory moves that stockfish choose.

I may get more moves if I repeat the analysis.

Now it is possible to analyze everyone of the positions after 1.e4 1.d4 1.Nf3
to continue theory and continue in this way.

questions
1)suppose you give stockfish analyze from clear hash every position in this way 10 times how many lines you are going to get at for the first n plies(for the first ply I get at least 3)?
2)Are we going to get 100% draws or maybe one line is going to be not draw?
3)Is there a tool to do it automatically because I do not intend to do it manually inspite of my interest in the results?

There is no such tool AFAIK. For single threaded SF12 I got data that it changes mind in early quiet openings on average once every 5-6 plies (close to that). With this one can estimate how many different lines one gets in several tries to the first n plies for every position. You have to consider transpositions and changing mind for an earlier move.

matejst likes this post

Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content





opening theory without opening book by stockfish Empty
PostSubject: Re: opening theory without opening book by stockfish   opening theory without opening book by stockfish Empty

Back to top Go down
 
opening theory without opening book by stockfish
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
ProDeo :: Computer Chess-
Jump to: