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 New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3

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Jeroen_TCEC
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Jeroen_TCEC




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Join date : 2023-06-10

New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3 Empty
PostSubject: New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3   New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3 EmptyWed Mar 13, 2024 10:18 am

Hi all,

I have made a new version of Rebel.bin, the Polyglot openingbook for Rebel. You can download it over here:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/ewbwkyexkspablh/Rebel.bin/file

Many new lines and improvements/additions on existing lines.

Enjoy!

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Admin
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New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3   New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3 EmptyWed Mar 13, 2024 11:19 am

Tanks Jeroen, I will add the new book to the download.

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http://rebel13.nl/
Jeroen_TCEC




Posts : 19
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New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3   New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3 EmptyFri Mar 15, 2024 9:43 am

Admin wrote:
Tanks Jeroen, I will add the new book to the download.

Thanks! Will you send Rebel 16.3 including book to the SSDF? IMO very interesting to see how it performs. Maybe top 5?

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Jeroen_TCEC




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PostSubject: Re: New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3   New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3 EmptyMon Mar 18, 2024 10:11 am

A little test:

Rebel 16.3 (+Perfect2021.bin) - Berserk 12 (+Rebel.bin) 36-64

Now I switched books:

Rebel 16.3 (+Rebel.bin) - Berserk 12 (+Perfect2021.bin) 48-52

A significant difference of 12%! Actually 48% is a very good result, as Berserk is extremely good at blitz.

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Admin
Admin
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New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3   New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3 EmptyMon Mar 18, 2024 10:22 am

Nice bounce
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Dann Corbit




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New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3   New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3 EmptyMon Mar 18, 2024 7:43 pm

Thanks, I got a copy.
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Peter Berger




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New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3   New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3 EmptyTue Mar 19, 2024 11:28 am

I really like your book. I pitted Rebel at tournament time control against Stockfish 16.1 without book, Rebel with the black pieces and had a look at your complicated Paulsen line. Rebel's last book move was like move 30 when Stockfish on its own already displayed 0.00s everywhere. Rebel was less optimistic, but it had no difficulty to find correct moves.
I can see how this is possible Stockfish being that deterministic, but this is clearly a labour of love, thank you.
Btw - is there any technical reason why Rebel can't play capture moves from book? Or is it just that no one ever bothered to fix this bug in the book utility?

Peter

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Jeroen_TCEC




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PostSubject: Re: New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3   New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3 EmptySat Mar 23, 2024 9:17 am

Interesting result:

Rebel 16.3 (+Rebel.bin) - Stockfish 11 (+Small solid book) 134.5-65.5 (=67.25%)

That's almost 10% better than Rebel 16.2 did in a similar test. Rebel 16.3 won 23 games as black, quite astonishing.

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Jeroen_TCEC




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PostSubject: Re: New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3   New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3 EmptySat Mar 23, 2024 12:03 pm

It gets even better:

Rebel 16.3 (+Rebel.bin) - Stockfish 12 (+Small solid book) 105-95  (=52.5%)

In my tests Rebel 16.2 never managed to beat Stockfish 12 (the first SF with NNUE) and often lost rather clearly.

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Admin
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PostSubject: Re: New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3   New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3 EmptySat Mar 23, 2024 12:52 pm

Yes, who would had thought that when SF12 NNUE came out ~4 years ago and was miles ahead.

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Peter Berger




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PostSubject: Re: New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3   New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3 EmptyFri May 10, 2024 1:21 pm

I wonder how you deal with the shortcomings of the Polyglot book interface yourself, Jeroen.
An example (Rebel/CSTal with black):
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 d5 4. Nc3 c6 5. Bg5
I suppose you want to go 5....dxc4 here, a move Rebel will never play on its own. So it is out of book for the rest of the game (because no captures from book with Polyglot book) and goes for some improvised fianchetto variation starting with Nbd7.
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Eelco

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PostSubject: Re: New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3   New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3 EmptySat May 11, 2024 7:24 am

I don't really understand why a polyglot book would not allow captures in the book Peter? I don't use it often but I have never read that anywhere before?

I look at your position now with Rebel.bin, the previous version I think it was, and it has h6 at 50% and also dxc4 as you say is good, it also at 50%. Maybe Rebel will not play the opening on its own, if it does not play the previous moves, but certainly can play dxc4 if it is put here.

(edits deleted)

Maybe the new version from Jeroen plays something different? I checked my latest copy now from the Rebel 16.3 folder where I put Jeroen's book, it has h6 at 40% and dxc4 at 60%

I see this in Scid vs PC 4.22


Last edited by Eelco on Mon May 13, 2024 1:40 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Jeroen_TCEC




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PostSubject: Re: New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3   New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3 EmptySat May 11, 2024 10:43 am

Peter Berger wrote:
I wonder how you deal with the shortcomings of the Polyglot book interface yourself, Jeroen.
An example (Rebel/CSTal with black):
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 d5 4. Nc3 c6 5. Bg5
I suppose you want to go 5....dxc4 here, a move Rebel will never play on its own. So it is out of book for the rest of the game (because no captures from book with Polyglot book) and goes for some improvised fianchetto variation starting with Nbd7.

I don't have such problems, Peter. So I have no idea why you don't get captures. I played thousands of test games in Cutechess and never experienced any problem. 5... dxc4 has been played a lot of times in my tests in the line you give, as well as 5... h6.

So in your setup Rebel will never play 3... cxd4 after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 (or 2... e6 3. d4)?

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Peter Berger




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New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3   New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3 EmptySat May 11, 2024 5:19 pm

[quote="Jeroen_TCEC"]
Peter Berger wrote:

So in your setup Rebel will never play 3... cxd4 after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 (or 2... e6 3. d4)?

Correct. Rebel will never play 3. ...cxd4 in my setup unless it finds it by itself.

I didn't think this were possible, so I probably never did a proper "bug" report. I'll do it now: this is with the Chessbase GUI, Rebel won't play any capture moves from book.
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Jeroen_TCEC




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PostSubject: Re: New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3   New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3 EmptySat May 11, 2024 5:34 pm

Quote :
Correct. Rebel will never play 3. ...cxd4 in my setup unless it finds it by itself.

I didn't think this were possible, so I probably never did a proper "bug" report. I'll do it now: this is with the Chessbase GUI, Rebel won't play any capture moves from book.

When I use the Polyglot utility as explained here: https://prodeo.actieforum.com/t1519-polyglot-book-in-arena

I have no problems in the Fritz GUI. Captures are played normally. Same in Arena: no problems.

So I suggest you use the Polyglot utility that you can download using the link above.

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Mclane

Mclane


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New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3   New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3 EmptySun May 12, 2024 1:08 am

Chessbase GUI. WTF is this ? Never heard about.

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Eelco

Eelco


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PostSubject: Re: New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3   New Polyglot openingbook for REBEL 16.3 EmptyMon May 13, 2024 1:38 pm

I forgot that Rebel should also use Polyglot to use the book from Jeroen, and I did not, so no wonder it did not work in Shredder. I think Peter should be able to get Jeroen's book working in Chessbase with this advice from the author? I will delete my other edits because I can't remember what exactly was not working and right now I can't reproduce anything so it is of no use to the programmers anyway and furthermore offtopic to the thread. So will edit a third time my message maybe my memory will come back on this Rolling Eyes Sorry for the inconvenience!.
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