Damir Desevac
Posts : 319Join date : 2020-11-27Age : 43Location : Denmark Subject: Can engines find the correct move in this position? Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:39 am Here is the position: r1bqk1nr/pp1pnppp/1bp5/1B6/3PP3/5N2/PP3PPP/RNBQ1RK1 w kq - 0 8 The correct move is d5 with +1.52 advantage for White. I have tested both Rebel and Komodo and they both don't want to play d5 but are going for Bd3 instead, while latest Stockfish finds the move instantly. Also SF derivatives like Eman, Zeus and AI also have no problem finding the move..
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Eelco
Posts : 229Join date : 2021-10-08 Subject: Re: Can engines find the correct move in this position? Thu Aug 11, 2022 9:25 pm Damir Desevac wrote: Here is the position: r1bqk1nr/pp1pnppp/1bp5/1B6/3PP3/5N2/PP3PPP/RNBQ1RK1 w kq - 0 8 The correct move is d5 with +1.52 advantage for White. I have tested both Rebel and Komodo and they both don't want to play d5 but are going for Bd3 instead, while latest Stockfish finds the move instantly. Also SF derivatives like Eman, Zeus and AI also have no problem finding the move.. Yes I think you are right that the move proves much better for White but I do not understand where the difference (in evaluation) comes from, unless it is simply a matter of training with more games or simply with the relevant opening position in the case of Stockfish, helped that it will try to maximize better depth and better King safety already since the times of Glaurung. The difference is so large... If stockfish is using its HCE after sacrificing a Bishop, because of the material imbalance does that not defeat the purpose of NNUE, when it is supposed to have knowledge especially of gambits? That makes not an awful lot of sense but probably Stockfish is using the hybrid eval here, a Bishop down is after all a large imbalance. White has the King safety, Black king trapped in the center, Rook on h8 immobilized, Black lost its castling rights, White two far advanced pawns against the king and against an isolated pawn Rook on a8 also not in the game. More than enough compensation and the PV proves it. But if Stockfish's NNUE is not playing it must rely on the very good King safety in the handcrafted evaluation here... And the NNUE trainer would need more gambit games that is obvious, if you don't want the HCE to take over again...
[pgn]
[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2022.08.11"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Blue Marlin 14.9a"]
[Black "Rebel 15.1 MOD"]
[Result "1-0"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "r1bqk1nr/pp1pnppp/1bp5/1B6/3PP3/5N2/PP3PPP/RNBQ1RK1 w kq -"]
1. d5 cxb5 2. d6 Nc6 3. e5 h6 4. a3 Kf8 5. Nc3 Qe8 6. b4 a6
7. a4 bxa4 8. Rxa4 Ra7 9. Bb2 Qe6 10. Qd2 Qb3 11. Rfa1 f6
12. Nd5 1-0
[/pgn]
Playing out the opening position, shown in the pgn above with both engines running in parallel, me arbitrarily deciding when one of the engines may make its next move.
Rebel 15.1 (with verification search but that is not important, evaluation is everything here, until Rebel sees that Black is lost) on the final position after 12. Nd5:
Code: 2b2knr/rp1p2p1/pbnP1p1p/3NP3/RP6/1q3N2/1B1Q1PPP/R5K1 b - - Engine: Rebel 15.1 MOD (512 MB) gemaakt door Fabien Letouzey, Thomas Gaksch, Jerry D. Watson, Chris Whittington en Ed Schröder 16/34 0:01 +0.43 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.Ta5 b5 15.Lxa7 Dxd2 16.Pxd2 fxe5 17.Tc1 Kf7 18.Ta3 Pf6 19.Lc5 Lb7 20.Te1 Tb8 21.h4 (1.528.513) 792 17/34 0:03 +0.43 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.Ta5 b5 15.Lxa7 Dxd2 16.Pxd2 fxe5 17.Tc1 Kf7 18.Ta3 Pf6 19.Lc5 Lb7 20.Te1 Tb8 21.h4 Pd5 22.Tf3+ Ke6 (2.482.936) 776 18/42 0:05 +0.43 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.Ta5 b5 15.Lxa7 Dxd2 16.Pxd2 fxe5 17.Tc1 Kf7 18.Ta3 Pf6 19.Lc5 Lb7 20.Te1 Tb8 21.h4 Pd5 22.Tf3+ Ke6 (4.409.348) 772 19/42 0:08 +0.42 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.Ta5 b5 15.Lxa7 Dxd2 16.Pxd2 fxe5 17.Tc1 Kf7 18.Ta3 Lb7 19.Lc5 Pf6 20.Td3 Te8 21.Te1 g5 22.Pb3 (6.436.482) 770 20/45 0:13 +0.35 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.Ta5 b5 15.Lxa7 Dxd2 16.Pxd2 fxe5 17.Tc1 Pf6 18.Pf3 Kf7 19.Txc6 dxc6 20.Pxe5+ Ke6 21.Pxc6 Kxd6 22.Pb8 Pd5 23.Lc5+ Kc7 24.Pxa6+ Kc6 25.f3 Te8 (10.697.283) 766 21/45 0:20 +0.40 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.Ta5 b5 15.Lxa7 Dxd2 16.Pxd2 fxe5 17.Tc1 Kf7 18.Ta3 Pf6 19.Lc5 Lb7 20.Te1 Ta8 21.Pb3 Pd5 22.h3 Tb8 (15.518.866) 766 22/50 0:32 +0.39 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.Ta5 b5 15.Lxa7 Dxd2 16.Pxd2 fxe5 17.Tc1 Kf7 18.Ta3 Pf6 19.Lc5 Pd5 20.Tf3+ Ke6 21.Tb3 Lb7 22.Te1 Tg8 23.Pe4 Pf6 (25.040.772) 765 23/50 0:50 +0.55-- 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 fxe5 15.bxc6 exd4 16.Txd4 Df7 17.Pe5 De6 18.cxb7 Lxb7 19.Te1 a5 20.h4 g5 21.hxg5 Kg7 22.gxh6+ Txh6 23.Tg4+ Kf8 24.Dc2 Pf6 25.Pg6+ Kg7 (39.077.586) 769 23/50 0:55 +0.71-- 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 fxe5 15.bxc6 exd4 16.Txd4 Df7 17.Pe5 De6 18.cxb7 Txb7 19.Te1 a5 20.Dxa5 De8 (42.374.200) 768 23/50 1:04 +0.96-- 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 fxe5 15.bxc6 exd4 16.Txd4 Df7 17.Pe5 bxc6 18.Pxf7 Kxf7 19.Te1 Pf6 20.Tf4 g5 21.Dd3 gxf4 22.Db3+ Pd5 23.Te7+ Kf8 (49.341.076) 764 23/51 1:20 +1.32-- 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 fxe5 15.bxc6 exd4 16.Txd4 Df7 17.Pe5 De6 18.cxb7 Lxb7 19.Te1 g5 20.h4 Df5 21.Tb4 De6 22.hxg5 De8 23.gxh6 Txh6 24.Tf4+ Kg7 (61.155.695) 762 23/62 2:21 +1.82-- 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 fxe5 15.bxc6 exd4 16.Txd4 Df7 17.Pe5 De8 18.cxd7 Lxd7 19.Te1 Pf6 20.Da2 Le6 21.Dxe6 b5 22.Dxe8+ Kxe8 23.d7+ Kd8 24.Kf1 Te8 (108.189.104) 764 23/62 3:40 +2.09 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Dxb5 15.Lxa7 Pxa7 16.Ph4 g5 17.Pg6+ Kg7 18.Pxh8 b6 19.exf6+ Pxf6 20.Dc2 De5 21.Pg6 Dxd6 22.Td1 De6 23.f4 De3+ 24.Kh1 Pg4 25.Tf1 (168.619.679) 763 24/80 7:32 +2.31 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Pxd4 15.Txd4 Df7 16.Te1 axb5 17.e6 De8 18.e7+ Kf7 19.Dc2 g5 20.Ph4 Kg7 21.Pf5+ Kh7 22.Pg3+ Kg7 23.Ph5+ Kf7 24.Db3+ Kg6 25.Dd3+ Kf7 (344.122.173) 761 24/80 7:51 +2.13 12...Ld8 13.T4a3 Dc4 14.Tc1 De4 15.Te1 Dc4 16.h3 Db5 17.Tae3 Kf7 18.Pf4 a5 19.Dc2 g5 20.Ph5 Kf8 21.exf6 (358.261.894) 759 25/80 8:08 +2.29-- 12...Ld8 13.T4a3 Dc4 14.Tc1 De4 15.Te1 Dh7 16.exf6 Pxf6 17.Ph4 Pxd5 18.Dxd5 Lxh4 19.Tf3+ Lf6 20.Lxf6 Dg8 21.Le7+ Ke8 22.Dxg8+ Txg8 23.Lh4+ Pe7 24.Lxe7 g5 25.b5 Tg6 (371.102.418) 759 25/80 8:59 +2.34 12...Ld8 13.T4a3 Dc4 14.Tc1 Dg4 15.h3 De4 16.Te3 Dg6 17.Ph4 Df7 18.Dd3 f5 19.Pxf5 g6 20.e6 dxe6 21.Lg7+ Dxg7 22.Pxg7 Kxg7 23.Pc7 (408.798.521) 757 25/80 9:15 +2.17 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Pxd4 15.Txd4 Df7 16.Te1 g5 17.Dc3 Ta8 18.Tc4 Kg7 19.Txc8 Txc8 20.Dxc8 fxe5 21.bxa6 bxa6 22.Pxe5 De6 23.Dxd7+ Dxd7 24.Pxd7 h5 25.Te5 Kf7 (420.781.276) 757 26/80 11:02 +2.42-- 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Pxd4 15.Txd4 Df7 16.Te1 g5 17.Dc3 Ta8 18.Tc4 Kg7 19.Txc8 Txc8 20.Dxc8 fxe5 21.bxa6 bxa6 22.Pxe5 De6 23.Dxa6 g4 24.Pd3 Df5 25.g3 h5 (501.886.981) 757 26/80 13:00 +2.30 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Pxd4 15.Txd4 Df7 16.Te1 g5 17.Dc3 Ta8 18.Tc4 Kg7 19.Txc8 Txc8 20.Dxc8 fxe5 21.bxa6 bxa6 22.Pxe5 De6 23.Dxa6 Df5 24.g4 De6 25.Dd3 Th7 (592.111.249) 759 27/80 16:25 +2.55-- 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Pxd4 15.Txd4 Df7 16.Te1 g5 17.Dc3 Ta8 18.Tc4 Kg7 19.Txc8 Txc8 20.Dxc8 fxe5 21.bxa6 bxa6 22.Pxe5 De6 23.Dxa6 Df5 24.g4 De6 25.Dd3 Th7 (749.208.340) 760 27/80 22:36 +2.38 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Pxe5 15.Pxe5 fxe5 16.Dc3 exd4 17.Dxc8+ Kf7 18.b6 Ta8 19.Dxa8 h5 20.Te1 Kg6 21.Txa6 d3 22.Ta5 Pf6 23.Txd5 Txa8 24.Txd3 Tc8 25.Tb1 Tc6 (1.036.664.847) 763 28/80 31:11 +2.56 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Dxb5 15.Dc2 fxe5 16.Pxe5 Pxe5 17.Dxc8+ Kf7 18.Lxa7 Pg6 19.Dc2 Pf8 20.Tb1 Dd5 21.Td4 De6 22.Te4 Dxd6 23.Td1 Dc6 24.Da2+ Kg6 25.Tc4 De6 (1.436.470.589) 767 29/80 39:56 +2.72-- 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Dxb5 15.Dc2 fxe5 16.Pxe5 Pxe5 17.Dxc8+ Kf7 18.Lxa7 Pg6 19.Dc2 Pf8 20.Tb1 Dd5 21.Td1 Dh5 22.Te4 Pe6 23.Txe6 dxe6 24.Dc7+ Kg6 25.f3 Pf6 (1.836.880.294) 766 29/80 41:06 +2.63 12...Ld8 13.T4a3 Dc4 14.Tc1 Dg4 15.h3 Df5 16.b5 axb5 17.Pe3 De6 18.Txc6 dxc6 19.Txa7 Lb6 20.Ta8 Ke8 21.Dc2 Kf7 22.Dd3 f5 23.Pd4 Lxd4 24.Dxd4 Kg6 25.g4 (1.889.133.101) 765 30/80 45:00 +2.79-- 12...Ld8 13.T4a3 Dc4 14.Tc1 Dg4 15.h3 Df5 16.b5 axb5 17.Pe3 De4 18.Txc6 bxc6 19.Txa7 c5 20.Pd5 Kf7 21.Pc3 Dc6 22.exf6 gxf6 23.Df4 Kg7 24.Pe4 b4 25.Dg4+ Kf7 (2.065.189.278) 764 30/80 65:54 +2.95-- 12...Ld8 13.T4a3 Dc4 14.Tc1 Dg4 15.h3 Df5 16.b5 axb5 17.Pe3 De4 18.Txc6 bxc6 19.Txa7 c5 20.Pd5 Kf7 21.Pc3 Dc6 22.exf6 gxf6 23.Df4 Kg7 24.Pe4 b4 25.Dg4+ Kf7 (3.027.931.143) 765 30/80 72:45 +2.63++ 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Pxd4 15.Txd4 Df7 16.Te1 g5 17.Dc3 Ta8 18.Tc4 Kg7 19.Txc8 Txc8 20.Dxc8 fxe5 21.bxa6 bxa6 22.Pxe5 Df5 23.De8 h5 24.Pxd7 Th6 25.Pf8 Txd6 (3.343.995.638) 765 30/80 73:02 +2.65 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Pxd4 15.Txd4 Df7 16.Te1 g5 17.Dc3 Ta8 18.Tc4 Kg7 19.Txc8 Txc8 20.Dxc8 fxe5 21.bxa6 bxa6 22.Pxe5 Df5 23.De8 h5 24.Pxd7 Th6 25.h3 g4 (3.358.021.559) 766 31/80 95:46 +2.85 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Pxe5 15.Pxe5 fxe5 16.Dc3 exd4 17.Dxc8+ Kf7 18.b6 Ta8 19.Dxa8 Kg6 20.Txa6 d3 21.De8+ Kh7 22.T6a5 Pf6 23.Txd5 Txe8 24.Txd3 Tc8 25.Tdd1 Tc6 (4.417.332.975) 768 beste zet: Lb6-d4 tijd: 140:25.860 min n/s: 777.633 CPU 100.0% n/s(1CPU): 777.633 nodes: 6.552.230.000
Blue Marlin standing for the Stockfish family, same position:
Code: 2b2knr/rp1p2p1/pbnP1p1p/3NP3/RP6/1q3N2/1B1Q1PPP/R5K1 b - - Engine: Blue Marlin 14.9a (512 MB) gemaakt door dorsz and the Stockfish developers (see 20/41 0:02 +6.43 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Pxe5 15.Pxe5 fxe5 16.Dc3 exd4 17.Dxc8+ Kf7 18.b6 Ta8 19.Dxa8 g5 20.Dc8 Kg6 21.Te1 d3 22.De8+ Df7 23.Td4 Kg7 24.De5+ Pf6 25.Txd3 Te8 (2.138.009) 1060 21/31 0:02 +6.62 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Dxb5 15.Lxa7 fxe5 16.Ph4 g5 17.Pg6+ Kg7 18.Pxh8 b6 19.h4 Kxh8 20.hxg5 Pxa7 21.gxh6 Db3 22.Dg5 Df7 23.Dxe5+ Kh7 24.De4+ Dg6 25.Dxg6+ Kxg6 (2.495.821) 1052 22/35 0:03 +6.33 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Pxe5 15.Pxe5 fxe5 16.Dc3 exd4 17.Dxc8+ Kf7 18.b6 Ta8 19.Dxa8 g5 20.Te1 Kg7 21.De8 Df7 22.De5+ Pf6 23.Dxd4 Dd5 24.Dc3 Kg6 25.Tc4 Df5 (3.759.290) 997 23/40 0:05 +6.87 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Dxb5 15.Lxa7 fxe5 16.Ph4 Pf6 17.Pg6+ Kg8 18.Dc2 e4 19.Pe7+ Kf7 20.Da2+ Ke8 21.Ld4 Dd3 22.Lxf6 gxf6 23.Pg6 Tf8 24.Pxf8 Kxf8 25.Db2 Kf7 (5.426.518) 971 24/45 0:08 +6.69 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Dxb5 15.Lxa7 fxe5 16.Ph4 Pf6 17.Pg6+ Kg8 18.Dc2 b6 19.Tb1 Dc5 20.Dxc5 bxc5 21.Pxh8 Kxh8 22.Lxc5 Kh7 23.Ta3 g5 24.Le3 a5 25.f3 La6 (7.908.313) 952 25/46 0:12 +6.90 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Pxe5 15.Pxe5 fxe5 16.Dc3 exd4 17.Dxc8+ Kf7 18.b6 Ta8 19.Dxa8 g5 20.Te1 Kg7 21.De8 Df7 22.De5+ Pf6 23.Dxd4 Te8 24.Taa1 Dd5 25.Dxd5 Txe1+ (11.286.580) 939 26/48 0:15 +6.75 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Pxe5 15.Pxe5 fxe5 16.Dc3 exd4 17.Dxc8+ Kf7 18.b6 Ta8 19.Dxa8 g5 20.Te1 Kg7 21.Dc8 Dxd6 22.Dxb7 Pf6 23.Dc7 Dd5 24.b7 d3 25.Te7+ Kg6 (14.106.773) 924 27/47 0:22 +6.95 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Pxe5 15.Pxe5 fxe5 16.Dc3 exd4 17.Dxc8+ Kf7 18.b6 Ta8 19.Dxa8 g5 20.Te1 Kg7 21.Dc8 Dxd6 22.Dxb7 Pf6 23.Dc7 Dd5 24.b7 d3 25.Te7+ Kg6 (20.335.461) 911 28/54 0:29 +6.75 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Pxe5 15.Pxe5 fxe5 16.Dc3 exd4 17.Dxc8+ Kf7 18.b6 Ta8 19.Dxa8 g5 20.Te1 Th7 21.De8+ Kf6 22.Ta3 d3 23.De3 d2 24.Td1 Tf7 25.Txd2 Db5 (26.477.917) 906 29/53 0:41 +6.96 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Pxe5 15.Pxe5 fxe5 16.Dc3 exd4 17.Dxc8+ Kf7 18.b6 Ta8 19.Dxa8 g5 20.Te1 Kg7 21.Dc8 Dxd6 22.Dxb7 Pf6 23.Dc7 Dxc7 24.bxc7 Tc8 25.Tc1 Pe8 (37.011.001) 896 30/64 1:12 +6.92 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Dxb5 15.Lxa7 fxe5 16.Ph4 Pf6 17.Pg6+ Kg8 18.Dc2 Dd5 19.Pe7+ Pxe7 20.dxe7 Kf7 21.Tc4 Kxe7 22.Tc5 De6 23.Txc8 Txc8 24.Dxc8 Dc6 25.Db8 Dd5 (64.824.106) 897 31/55 1:24 +6.71 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Dxb5 15.Lxa7 fxe5 16.Ph4 Pf6 17.Pg6+ Kg8 18.Dc2 Dd5 19.Pe7+ Pxe7 20.dxe7 Kf7 21.Tc4 Kxe7 22.Tc5 De6 23.Txc8 Txc8 24.Dxc8 Dc6 25.Db8 Ke6 (75.545.711) 890 32/57 2:17 +6.93 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 axb5 15.Txa7 Kf7 16.Ta8 fxe5 17.Txc8 exd4 18.Df4+ Kg6 19.Txc6 bxc6 20.Pe5+ Dxe5 21.Dxe5 Pf6 22.f4 Te8 23.Dxd4 Kh7 24.Dd2 Kh8 25.Da2 b4 (121.774.495) 886 33/60 2:59 +7.01 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Dxb5 15.Lxa7 fxe5 16.Ph4 Pf6 17.Pg6+ Kg8 18.Dc2 Dd5 19.Pe7+ Pxe7 20.dxe7 Kf7 21.Tc4 Kxe7 22.Txc8 Txc8 23.Dxc8 Dc6 24.Db8 Dd5 25.Dc7 Kf7 (160.491.892) 892 34/59 3:28 +7.09 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Dxb5 15.Lxa7 fxe5 16.Ph4 Pf6 17.Pg6+ Kg8 18.Dc2 Dd5 19.Pe7+ Pxe7 20.dxe7 Kf7 21.Tc4 Kxe7 22.Txc8 Txc8 23.Dxc8 Dc6 24.Db8 Dd5 25.Dc7 Kf7 (185.364.132) 887 35/66 4:43 +7.07 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Pxd4 15.Txd4 De6 16.Te1 f5 17.Dc2 axb5 18.Dxc8+ Kf7 19.Tdd1 Ta4 20.Dxb7 Tb4 21.Db8 g5 22.Pd4 Txd4 23.Txd4 h5 24.h4 gxh4 25.Txh4 Kg6 (248.284.185) 876 36/62 5:50 +7.08 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Pxe5 15.Pxe5 fxe5 16.Dc3 exd4 17.Dxc8+ Kf7 18.b6 Ta8 19.Dxa8 Kg6 20.Txa6 d3 21.De8+ Kh7 22.T6a5 Pf6 23.Dxh8+ Kxh8 24.Txd5 Pxd5 25.Td1 Pb4 (304.352.129) 869 37/63 6:33 +7.21 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Pxe5 15.Pxe5 fxe5 16.Dc3 exd4 17.Dxc8+ Kf7 18.b6 Ta8 19.Dxa8 Kg6 20.Txa6 d3 21.De8+ Kh7 22.T6a5 Pf6 23.Dxh8+ Kxh8 24.Txd5 Pxd5 25.Td1 Pb4 (340.993.510) 866 38/73 8:33 +7.13 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 b6 15.bxc6 dxc6 16.Lxb6 Dxd2 17.Pxd2 Ta8 18.Td4 fxe5 19.d7 Lxd7 20.Txd7 Pf6 21.Tb7 Kg8 22.Lc7 Kh7 23.Lxe5 Thf8 24.Pc4 c5 25.f4 Tad8 (446.088.386) 869 39/61 10:43 +7.25 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 axb5 15.Txa7 Kf7 16.Ta8 fxe5 17.Txc8 exd4 18.Df4+ Kg6 19.Txc6 bxc6 20.Pe5+ Dxe5 21.Dxe5 Pf6 22.Dxd4 Te8 23.g4 Kh7 24.f3 Kg8 25.Da7 Kh7 (554.463.596) 861 40/73 12:45 +7.08 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Pxe5 15.Pxe5 fxe5 16.Dc3 exd4 17.Dxc8+ Kf7 18.b6 Ta8 19.Dxa8 g5 20.Te1 Kg7 21.Dc8 Dxd6 22.Dxb7 Pf6 23.Dc7 Dxc7 24.bxc7 Tc8 25.Tc1 Pe8 (661.499.132) 864 41/68 13:49 +7.06 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Pxe5 15.Pxe5 fxe5 16.Dc3 exd4 17.Dxc8+ Kf7 18.b6 Ta8 19.Dxa8 g5 20.Te1 Kg7 21.Dc8 Dxd6 22.Dxb7 Pf6 23.Dc7 Dxc7 24.bxc7 Tc8 25.Tc1 Kf7 (717.496.502) 864 42/83 22:44 +7.25 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Dxb5 15.Lxa7 fxe5 16.Ph4 Pf6 17.Pg6+ Kg8 18.Dc2 Dd5 19.Pe7+ Pxe7 20.dxe7 Kf7 21.Tc4 Kxe7 22.Txc8 Txc8 23.Dxc8 Dc6 24.Db8 Dd5 25.Dc7 Kf7 (1.194.563.848) 875 43/65 24:19 +7.15 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Dxb5 15.Lxa7 fxe5 16.Ph4 Pf6 17.Pg6+ Kg8 18.Dc2 Dd5 19.Pe7+ Pxe7 20.dxe7 Kf7 21.Tc4 Kxe7 22.Txc8 Txc8 23.Dxc8 Dc6 24.Db8 Dd5 25.Dc7 Kf7 (1.275.931.540) 874 44/70 28:04 +7.24 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Dxb5 15.Lxa7 fxe5 16.Ph4 Pf6 17.Pg6+ Kg8 18.Dc2 Dd5 19.Pe7+ Pxe7 20.dxe7 Kf7 21.Tc4 Kxe7 22.Txc8 Txc8 23.Dxc8 Dc6 24.Db8 Dd5 25.Dc7 Kf7 (1.472.292.970) 874 45/79 47:17 +7.50 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Dxb5 15.Lxa7 fxe5 16.Ph4 Pf6 17.Pg6+ Kg8 18.Dc2 Dd5 19.Pe7+ Pxe7 20.dxe7 Kf7 21.Tc4 Kxe7 22.Txc8 Txc8 23.Dxc8 De4 24.Dc5+ Ke6 25.Db6+ d6 (2.579.148.438) 908 46/76 73:36 +7.65 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Dxb5 15.Lxa7 fxe5 16.Ph4 Pf6 17.Pg6+ Kg8 18.Dc2 Dd5 19.Pe7+ Pxe7 20.dxe7 Kf7 21.Tc4 Kxe7 22.Txc8 Txc8 23.Dxc8 De4 24.h3 Dc6 25.Db8 Dc3 (4.076.974.575) 923 47/69 77:33 +7.58 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Dxb5 15.Lxa7 fxe5 16.Ph4 Pf6 17.Pg6+ Kg8 18.Dc2 Dd5 19.Pe7+ Pxe7 20.dxe7 Kf7 21.Tc4 Kxe7 22.Txc8 Txc8 23.Dxc8 De4 24.h3 Dc6 25.Db8 Dc3 (4.277.381.249) 919 48/81 94:39 +7.60 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Dxb5 15.Lxa7 fxe5 16.Ph4 Pf6 17.Pg6+ Kg8 18.Dc2 Dd5 19.Pe7+ Pxe7 20.dxe7 Kf7 21.Tc4 Kxe7 22.Txc8 Txc8 23.Dxc8 De4 24.h3 Dc6 25.Db8 Dc3 (5.209.029.661) 917 49/83 104:18 +7.60 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Dxb5 15.Lxa7 fxe5 16.Ph4 Pf6 17.Pg6+ Kg8 18.Dc2 Dd5 19.Pe7+ Pxe7 20.dxe7 Kf7 21.Tc4 Kxe7 22.Txc8 Txc8 23.Dxc8 Dc6 24.Db8 d6 25.Le3 Db5 (5.795.990.948) 926 50/83 140:25 +7.60 12...Ld4 13.Lxd4 Dxd5 14.b5 Dxb5 15.Lxa7 fxe5 16.Ph4 Pf6 17.Pg6+ Kg8 18.Dc2 Dd5 19.Pe7+ Pxe7 20.dxe7 Kf7 21.Tc4 Kxe7 22.Txc8 Txc8 23.Dxc8 Dc6 24.Db8 d6 25.Le3 Db5 (7.923.899.458) 940 beste zet: Lb6-d4 tijd: 140:25.860 min n/s: 940.426 nodes: 7.923.899.458
Blue Marlin on the five best moves in the starting position, where also for Blue Marlin it must not yet be obvious how good White is here if playing the sac, just the compensation is a bit larger than for Rebel who also shows compensation but only to equality, well that difference can be 'explained' by style. But in the final position of the 'game' especially after playing Qb3 Rebel is much too optimistic again for Black.
Code: r1bqk1nr/pp1pnppp/1bp5/1B6/3PP3/5N2/PP3PPP/RNBQ1RK1 w kq - Engine: Blue Marlin 14.9a (512 MB) gemaakt door dorsz and the Stockfish developers (see 50 221:18 +0.92 1.d5 cxb5 2.d6 Pc6 3.e5 h6 4.a3 Kf8 5.Pc3 De8 6.b4 Ld8 7.a4 bxa4 8.b5 Pa5 9.Txa4 b6 10.Te1 Lb7 11.Tf4 g5 12.Tf5 Pc4 13.Dd3 Lxf3 14.e6 (10.540.948.456) 793 50 221:18 +0.48 1.Le2 d5 2.e5 Pg6 3.Pc3 P8e7 4.Pa4 Lc7 5.Pc5 O-O 6.b4 f6 7.exf6 Txf6 8.a4 h6 9.Te1 Ld6 10.b5 Dc7 11.La3 Lf5 12.Db3 Taf8 13.bxc6 bxc6 14.Db7 (10.540.948.456) 793 50 221:18 +0.47 1.La4 d5 2.Pc3 dxe4 3.Pxe4 Pf6 4.Pxf6+ gxf6 5.b4 O-O 6.b5 cxb5 7.Lxb5 Ld7 8.Tb1 Lc6 9.Lxc6 bxc6 10.La3 Te8 11.Lxe7 Dxe7 12.Da4 Dd7 13.Tbc1 Te6 14.Tc4 (10.540.948.456) 793 50 221:18 +0.43 1.Ld3 d5 2.Pbd2 dxe4 3.Pxe4 Pd5 4.b4 a6 5.a4 Pge7 6.Te1 O-O 7.Lg5 h6 8.Lh4 Pxb4 9.Lc4 Pbd5 10.Lxd5 cxd5 11.Pf6+ Kh8 12.Pxd5 Dxd5 13.Lxe7 Te8 14.Te5 (10.540.948.456) 793 50 221:18 +0.32 1.Lc4 d5 2.exd5 cxd5 3.Lb5+ Pc6 4.Lg5 f6 5.Pe5 fxg5 6.Pxc6 bxc6 7.Lxc6+ Kf7 8.Lxa8 La6 9.Lc6 Lxf1 10.Dxf1 Dd6 11.La4 Pf6 12.Pc3 Lxd4 13.Pb5 Db4 14.Pxd4 (10.540.948.456) 793
Eelco
Posts : 229Join date : 2021-10-08 Subject: Re: Can engines find the correct move in this position? Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:29 am I think that I found a part of the reason why the evaluations were so different. A version was playing where in eval.cpp the NNUE evaluation was divided by 200 instead of 100. In this case (this opening position) where eval is so important that may easily have been fatal. For instance the engine would appear to have trouble to see a win if the evaluation would be halved, just by appearances alone (for the user) but also because the values of positional compensation are halved.
I made a version of Rebel MOD were the NNUE is divided by 95, so a little bit in the opposite direction. The PV changes a bit but White still has the same compensation to start with of course, it is at least worth the Bishop.
The new PV could be like this with 3...Ba5:
[pgn]
[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2022.08.11"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Blue Marlin 14.9a"]
[Black "Rebel 15.1 MOD"]
[Result ""]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "r1bqk1nr/pp1pnppp/1bp5/1B6/3PP3/5N2/PP3PPP/RNBQ1RK1 w kq -"]
1. d5 cxb5 2. d6 Nc6 3. e5 Ba5 (3... h6 4. a3 Kf8 5. Nc3
Qe8 6. b4 a6 7. a4 bxa4 8. Rxa4 Ra7 9. Bb2 Qe6 10. Qd2 Qb3
11. Rfa1 f6 12. Nd5) 4. a3 b4 5. Bg5 Qb6 6. h3 Kf8 7. Bd2
Qd8 8. Re1 b6 9. axb4 Bxb4 10. Bxb4 Nxb4 11. Qd2 Na6
12. Qe2 Nb4 13. Qc4 Nc6 14. h4 Bb7 15. Nc3 h6 16. h5 Na5
17. Qg4 $16 {possibly this is still won for White}
[/pgn]
Eval of Rebel after 17. Qg4:
Code: r2q1knr/pb1p1pp1/1p1P3p/n3P2P/6Q1/2N2N2/1P3PP1/R3R1K1 b - - Engine: Rebel 15.1 MOD (512 MB) gemaakt door Fabien Letouzey, Thomas Gaksch, Jerry D 21/39 0:00 +0.80 17...Pb3 18.Ta4 Pc5 19.Tf4 Pe6 20.Tf5 Tc8 21.Ph4 Ke8 22.Pg6 Th7 23.Pe2 b5 24.Pef4 Da5 25.Te2 Da2 26.Kh2 Dc4 27.Te3 Lc6 (148.462) 22/42 0:02 +0.80 17...Pb3 18.Ta4 Pc5 19.Tf4 Pe6 20.Tf5 Ke8 21.Ph4 Tc8 22.Pg6 Th7 23.Pe2 b5 24.Pef4 Da5 25.Td1 Da4 26.Kh2 Tc5 27.Td3 (1.787.151) 820 23/42 0:02 +0.80 17...Pb3 18.Ta4 Pc5 19.Tf4 Pe6 20.Tf5 Tc8 21.Ph4 Ke8 22.Pg6 Th7 23.Pe2 b5 24.Pef4 Da5 25.Td1 Da4 26.Kh2 Tc5 27.Td3 a5 (2.010.729) 817 24/42 0:03 +0.80 17...Pb3 18.Ta4 Pc5 19.Tf4 Pe6 20.Tf5 Tc8 21.Ph4 Ke8 22.Pg6 Th7 23.Pe2 b5 24.Pef4 Da5 25.Td1 Da4 26.Kh2 Tc5 27.Td3 Db4 28.f3 Lc6 (2.539.762) 820 25/47 0:10 +0.96-- 17...Pb3 18.Ta4 Pc5 19.Tf4 Pe6 20.Tf5 Tc8 21.Ph4 Ke8 22.Pg6 Th7 23.Pe2 b5 24.Pef4 Da5 25.Td1 Da4 26.Kh2 Tc5 27.Td3 Db4 28.f3 Lc6 29.b3 a5 (8.467.281) 819 25/48 0:24 +0.97 17...Pb3 18.Ta4 Pc5 19.Tf4 Pe6 20.Tf5 Tc8 21.Ph4 Ke8 22.Pg6 Th7 23.Pe2 b5 24.Pef4 a6 25.Pxe6 dxe6 26.Tf4 Dd7 27.b4 Ld5 28.Td4 f5 29.Dg3 Db7 (20.330.841) 817 26/49 0:33 +0.80 17...Pb3 18.Ta4 Pc5 19.Tf4 Pe6 20.Tf5 Tc8 21.Ph4 Ke8 22.Pe2 Pe7 23.dxe7 Dxe7 24.Td1 Tc7 25.Pf4 Tf8 26.Td6 Tc5 27.Phg6 fxg6 28.Dxg6+ Tf7 (27.729.577) 818 27/55 1:08 +0.96-- 17...Pb3 18.Ta4 Pc5 19.Tf4 Pe6 20.Tf5 Tc8 21.Ph4 Ke8 22.Pg6 Th7 23.Pe2 b5 24.Pef4 Da5 25.Td1 Da4 26.Kh2 Tc5 27.Td3 Db4 28.Dh3 Dxb2 29.Pxe6 dxe6 30.d7+ Kd8 (55.217.637) 811 27/55 1:29 +0.89 17...Pb3 18.Ta4 Pc5 19.Tf4 Pe6 20.Tf5 Tc8 21.Ph4 Ke8 22.Pg6 Th7 23.Pe2 Ld5 24.Pef4 Lc4 25.Ta1 Pxf4 26.Pxf4 a5 27.Df3 Th8 28.b3 (72.799.983) 813 28/57 1:58 +0.64++ 17...Pb3 18.Ta4 Pc5 19.Tf4 Pe6 20.Tf5 Tc8 21.Ph4 Ke8 22.Pg6 Th7 23.Pe2 Ld5 24.Pef4 Lc4 25.b4 a5 26.bxa5 bxa5 27.Dg3 Pd4 28.e6 Pxe6 29.Tb1 a4 30.Pxe6 Lxe6 (96.148.893) 812 29/65 2:05 +0.80-- 17...Pb3 18.Ta4 Pc5 19.Tf4 Pe6 20.Tf5 Tc8 21.Ph4 Ke8 22.Pg6 Th7 23.Pe2 Ld5 24.Pef4 Lc4 25.Pxe6 Lxe6 26.Pf4 Kf8 27.g3 a5 28.Pxe6+ dxe6 29.Tf3 De8 30.Dd4 Dd7 (101.933.483) 812 29/65 3:43 +0.96-- 17...Pb3 18.Ta4 Pc5 19.Tf4 Pe6 20.Tf5 Tc8 21.Ph4 Ke8 22.Pg6 Th7 23.Pe2 Ld5 24.Pef4 Lc4 25.Pxe6 Lxe6 26.Pf4 Kf8 27.Pxe6+ dxe6 28.Tf3 Dd7 29.Ta1 Th8 30.b4 f5 (182.433.274) 815 29/65 4:41 +1.02 17...Pb3 18.Ta4 Pc5 19.Tf4 Pe6 20.Tf5 Tc8 21.Ph4 Ke8 22.Pg6 Th7 23.Pe2 b5 24.Pef4 Da5 25.Td1 Da4 26.Kh2 Tc5 27.Td3 Dc4 28.f3 a6 29.b3 Db4 30.Pxe6 Dxg4 (229.239.136) 814 30/71 7:16 +1.13 17...Pb3 18.Ta4 Pc5 19.Tf4 Pe6 20.Tf5 Tc8 21.Ph4 Ke8 22.Pg6 Th7 23.Pe2 b5 24.Pef4 Lc6 25.Td1 a6 26.Pxe6 dxe6 27.Tf4 Dd7 28.Dg3 Ld5 29.b3 a5 30.Tfd4 Db7 (356.543.436) 815 31/71 9:01 +1.13 17...Pb3 18.Ta4 Pc5 19.Tf4 Pe6 20.Tf5 Tc8 21.Ph4 Ke8 22.Pg6 Th7 23.Pe2 La6 24.Pef4 Lc4 25.Pxe6 Lxe6 26.Pf4 b5 27.Pxe6 dxe6 28.Tf3 Tc4 29.Tf4 Tc8 30.Ta1 Dd7 (443.101.684) 818 32/71 14:08 +1.02 17...Pb3 18.Ta4 Pc5 19.Tf4 Pe6 20.Tf5 Tc8 21.Ph4 Ke8 22.Pg6 Th7 23.Pe2 Ld5 24.Pef4 Lc4 25.Pxe6 Lxe6 26.Pf4 b5 27.Pxe6 dxe6 28.Tf3 Tc4 29.Tf4 Tc8 30.Ta1 Dd7 (694.806.571) 819 33/71 19:34 +0.95 17...Pb3 18.Ta4 Pc5 19.Tf4 Pe6 20.Tf5 Tc8 21.Ph4 Ke8 22.Pg6 Th7 23.Pe2 a5 24.Pgf4 Lc6 25.Td1 Pg5 26.Pg3 Lb7 27.Tb1 Tc6 28.Te1 Tc5 29.b4 (963.794.559) 820 34/74 25:58 +0.93 17...Pb3 18.Ta4 Pc5 19.Tf4 Pe6 20.Tf5 Tc8 21.Ph4 Ke8 22.Pg6 Th7 23.Pe2 a5 24.Pgf4 Lc6 25.b3 Pe7 26.dxe7 Dxe7 27.Td1 Db4 28.Td6 Dxb3 29.Pd4 Pxd4 30.Txd4 Db2 (1.280.745.263) 821 35/74 33:34 +1.09-- 17...Pb3 18.Ta4 Pc5 19.Tf4 Pe6 20.Tf5 Tc8 21.Ph4 Ke8 22.Pg6 Th7 23.Pe2 a5 24.Pgf4 Tc4 25.Txf7 Kxf7 26.Pxe6 Txg4 27.Pxd8+ Ke8 28.Pxb7 Te4 29.f4 Kf8 30.Kf2 Tb4 (1.652.614.385) 820 35/74 44:25 +1.25-- 17...Pb3 18.Ta4 Pc5 19.Tf4 Pe6 20.Tf5 Tc8 21.Ph4 Ke8 22.Pg6 Th7 23.Pe2 a5 24.Pgf4 Tc4 25.Txf7 Kxf7 26.Pxe6 Txg4 27.Pxd8+ Ke8 28.Pxb7 Te4 29.f4 Kf8 30.Kf2 Pf6 (2.183.863.778) 819 35/84 57:06 +1.18 17...Pb3 18.Ta4 Pc5 19.Tf4 Pe6 20.Tf5 Tc8 21.Ph4 Ke8 22.Pg6 Th7 23.Pe2 b5 24.Pef4 Da5 25.Td1 Da4 26.Kh2 Db3 27.Td3 Dc4 28.b3 Db4 29.f3 Lc6 30.Txf7 Kxf7 (2.814.698.039) 821 36/84 70:51 +1.25 17...Pb3 18.Ta4 Pc5 19.Tf4 Pe6 20.Tf5 Tc8 21.Ph4 Ke8 22.Pg6 Th7 23.Pe2 Ld5 24.Pef4 Lc4 25.Pxe6 Lxe6 26.Pf4 Kf8 27.Pxe6+ dxe6 28.Tf3 Dd7 29.Ta1 g6 30.hxg6 Tg7 (3.491.260.839) 821 37/84 100:23 +1.37 17...Pb3 18.Ta4 Pc5 19.Tf4 Pe6 20.Tf5 Tc8 21.Ph4 Ke8 22.Pg6 Th7 23.Pe2 Ld5 24.Pef4 Lc4 25.Pxe6 Lxe6 26.Pf4 Kf8 27.Pxe6+ dxe6 28.Tf3 Dd7 29.Ta1 Pe7 30.dxe7+ Dxe7 (4.911.968.927) 815 beste zet: Pa5-b3 tijd: 106:03.485 min n/s: 815.589 CPU 100.0% n/s(1CPU): 815.589 nodes: 5.189.990.000
Eval of Blue Marlin:
Code: r2q1knr/pb1p1pp1/1p1P3p/n3P2P/6Q1/2N2N2/1P3PP1/R3R1K1 b - - Engine: Blue Marlin 14.9a (512 MB) gemaakt door dorsz and the Stockfish developers (see 28/43 0:01 +1.80 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 Pc5 19.Pe2 a5 20.Pf4 Pe7 21.dxe7+ Dxe7 22.Td1 Kg8 23.Td6 b5 24.Te3 b4 25.Ph3 Lxf3 26.Dxf3 Kh7 27.Df5+ Kg8 28.Dc2 Pe6 29.f4 a4 30.De4 Tc8 (1.630.517) 1010 29/40 0:01 +1.75 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 Pc5 19.Pe2 a5 20.Pf4 Pe7 21.dxe7+ Dxe7 22.Td1 Kg8 23.Td6 b5 24.Te3 b4 25.Ph3 Lxf3 26.Dxf3 Kh7 27.Df5+ Kg8 28.Dc2 Pe6 29.De4 Tc8 30.Kh2 Tc6 (1.753.330) 999 30/44 0:02 +1.91 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 Pc5 19.Pe2 a5 20.Pf4 Pe7 21.dxe7+ Dxe7 22.Td1 Kg8 23.Td6 b5 24.Te3 b4 25.Ph3 Lxf3 26.Dxf3 Kh7 27.Df5+ Kg8 28.b3 Tc8 29.Kh2 Tc6 30.g3 Pe6 (2.516.587) 937 31/44 0:03 +2.00-- 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 (3.555.159) 904 31/44 0:04 +1.82++ 17...Pb3 (4.324.669) 895 31/44 0:04 +1.96 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 Pc5 19.Pe2 a5 20.Pf4 Pe7 21.dxe7+ Dxe7 22.Td1 Kg8 23.Td6 b5 24.Te3 b4 25.Ph3 Lxf3 26.Dxf3 Kh7 27.Df5+ Kg8 28.b3 Tc8 29.Kh2 Tc6 30.g3 Dd8 (4.461.148) 894 32/46 0:07 +2.00 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 Pc5 19.Pe2 a5 20.Pf4 Pe7 21.dxe7+ Dxe7 22.Td1 Kg8 23.Td6 b5 24.Te3 Ta6 25.Pd5 Lxd5 26.Txd5 Kh7 27.Df5+ g6 28.Dc2 Pe6 29.hxg6+ fxg6 30.Dd2 Td8 (6.145.492) 871 33/55 0:14 +2.09-- 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 (11.967.735) 843 33/55 0:14 +1.97++ 17...Pb3 (12.453.909) 843 33/55 0:15 +1.81++ 17...Pb3 (12.686.782) 844 33/55 0:15 +2.06 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 Pc5 19.Pe2 a5 20.Pf4 Pe7 21.dxe7+ Dxe7 22.Td1 Kg8 23.Td6 b5 24.Te3 Pe6 25.Pd5 Lxd5 26.Txd5 Tc8 27.Df5 Tc1+ 28.Kh2 Pc5 29.Td6 b4 30.Te2 b3 (13.028.568) 844 34/46 0:20 +2.09 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 Pc5 19.Pe2 a5 20.Pf4 Pe7 21.dxe7+ Dxe7 22.Td1 Kg8 23.Td6 b5 24.Te3 b4 25.Ph3 Lxf3 26.Dxf3 Kh7 27.Df5+ Kg8 28.b3 Tc8 29.Kh2 Tc6 30.g3 Dd8 (17.489.699) 838 35/50 0:47 +1.93++ 17...Pb3 (38.829.598) 813 35/50 0:49 +1.81++ 17...Pb3 (40.690.447) 814 35/50 0:51 +2.18-- 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 (42.029.320) 813 35/51 1:27 +1.91++ 17...Pb3 (70.214.574) 802 35/51 1:28 +2.09 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 Pc5 19.Pe2 a5 20.Tc3 De8 21.Pf4 Tc8 22.Tec1 Pe7 23.dxe7+ Dxe7 24.Td1 Kg8 25.Td6 Te8 26.Te3 Pe6 27.Pe2 Kh7 28.Df5+ Kg8 29.Pc3 Lc6 30.Pd5 Dd8 (71.233.635) 802 36/48 1:32 +1.92++ 17...Pb3 (73.912.496) 802 36/48 1:34 +2.06 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 Pc5 19.Pe2 a5 20.Tc3 De8 21.Pf4 Tc8 22.Tec1 Pe7 23.dxe7+ Dxe7 24.Td1 Kg8 25.Td6 Te8 26.Te3 Pe6 27.Pe2 Kh7 28.Df5+ Kg8 29.Ped4 Pxd4 30.Txd4 Lc6 (75.614.295) 801 37/50 1:45 +1.90++ 17...Pb3 (84.744.695) 800 37/50 1:47 +1.96 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 Pc5 19.Pe2 a5 20.Tc3 De8 21.Pf4 Tc8 22.Tec1 Pe7 23.dxe7+ Dxe7 24.Td1 Kg8 25.Td6 Te8 26.Te3 Pe6 27.Pe2 Kh7 28.Df5+ Kg8 29.Ped4 Pxd4 30.Txd4 Lc6 (85.883.972) 800 38/51 2:09 +2.07-- 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 (103.264.965) 795 38/56 2:28 +1.95++ 17...Pb3 (117.738.702) 794 38/56 2:29 +1.88 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 Pc5 19.Pe2 a5 20.Tc3 Tc8 21.Pf4 Pe7 22.dxe7+ Dxe7 23.Td1 Kg8 24.Td6 Lc6 25.Te3 La8 26.Ph3 Lxf3 27.Dxf3 Tc6 28.Df5 Dd8 29.g3 Pe6 30.Txc6 dxc6 (119.079.672) 795 39/50 2:33 +1.79++ 17...Pb3 (122.443.436) 796 39/50 2:36 +2.03-- 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 (124.498.717) 796 39/50 2:38 +1.85++ 17...Pb3 (126.159.299) 796 39/57 2:52 +2.07 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 Pc5 19.Pe2 a5 20.Pf4 Tc8 21.Tc3 Pe7 22.dxe7+ Dxe7 23.Td1 Lc6 24.Td6 Kg8 25.Te3 La8 26.Ph3 Lxf3 27.Dxf3 Tc6 28.Df5 Dd8 29.g3 Pe6 30.Txc6 dxc6 (137.308.987) 795 40/56 3:00 +1.89++ 17...Pb3 (143.907.651) 795 40/56 3:05 +1.77++ 17...Pb3 (147.564.631) 796 40/56 3:11 +1.91 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 Pc5 19.Pe2 a5 20.Pf4 Tc8 21.Tc3 Pe7 22.dxe7+ Dxe7 23.Td1 Kg8 24.Td6 Td8 25.Te3 Pe6 26.Pd4 Pxf4 27.Dxf4 Dg5 28.Dxg5 hxg5 29.e6 fxe6 30.Pxe6 Tc8 (153.012.143) 797 41/58 3:41 +1.99-- 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 (175.655.238) 794 41/62 4:41 +2.11-- 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 (221.801.843) 788 41/62 4:47 +1.99++ 17...Pb3 (226.995.194) 788 41/62 5:01 +1.79++ 17...Pb3 (237.713.834) 788 41/62 5:11 +1.76 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 Pc5 19.Pe2 a5 20.Tc3 Tc8 21.Pf4 Pe7 22.dxe7+ Dxe7 23.Td1 Kg8 24.Td6 Lc6 25.Te3 La8 26.Ph3 Lxf3 27.Dxf3 Tc6 28.Df5 Dh4 29.g3 De7 30.Pf4 Pe6 (245.934.407) 789 42/53 5:43 +1.91-- 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 (270.253.983) 786 42/54 6:19 +2.02-- 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 (298.376.455) 785 42/54 6:29 +1.91++ 17...Pb3 (306.144.694) 786 42/54 7:26 +2.17-- 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 (350.144.976) 784 42/62 10:48 +2.24 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 Pc5 19.Pe2 a5 20.Tc3 Tc8 21.Pf4 Pe7 22.dxe7+ Dxe7 23.Td1 Kg8 24.Td6 Te8 25.Te3 Pe6 26.Pe2 Kh7 27.Df5+ Kg8 28.Ped4 Pxd4 29.Txd4 De6 30.Dd3 Lxf3 (506.284.482) 780 43/63 11:46 +2.05++ 17...Pb3 (550.906.573) 780 43/63 11:48 +1.92++ 17...Pb3 (552.761.406) 780 43/63 12:18 +2.24 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 Pc5 19.Pe2 a5 20.Tc3 Tc8 21.Pf4 Pe7 22.dxe7+ Dxe7 23.Td1 Kg8 24.Td6 Lc6 25.Te3 La8 26.Ph3 Lxf3 27.Dxf3 Pe6 28.Df5 Tc1+ 29.Kh2 Tc6 30.Ted3 Txd6 (576.370.845) 780 44/55 12:34 +2.02++ 17...Pb3 (588.471.292) 780 44/55 12:37 +1.89++ 17...Pb3 (591.160.303) 780 44/55 12:47 +1.79 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 Pc5 19.Pe2 a5 20.Tc3 Tc8 21.Pf4 Pe7 22.dxe7+ Dxe7 23.Td1 Kg8 24.Td6 Lc6 25.Te3 La8 26.Ph3 Kh7 27.Ph4 Thd8 28.Pf5 Df8 29.Td1 Tc6 30.Tg3 Pe6 (599.426.498) 780 45/59 13:34 +1.96-- 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 (635.026.521) 779 45/59 14:23 +2.07-- 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 (672.735.502) 778 45/61 17:00 +2.23-- 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 (792.542.653) 776 45/61 17:53 +2.09++ 17...Pb3 (834.324.141) 776 45/61 18:24 +2.03 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 Pc5 19.Pe2 a5 20.Tc3 Tc8 21.Pf4 Pe7 22.dxe7+ Dxe7 23.Td1 Kg8 24.Td6 Lc6 25.Te3 a4 26.Ph3 Lxf3 27.Dxf3 Tc6 28.Df5 Dd8 29.g3 De7 30.Dc2 Pe6 (858.176.757) 777 46/55 19:02 +2.18-- 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 (887.854.700) 777 46/59 20:32 +2.05++ 17...Pb3 (957.919.412) 777 46/59 20:37 +1.89++ 17...Pb3 (962.071.351) 777 46/59 20:41 +1.89 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 Pc5 19.Pe2 a5 20.Tc3 Tc8 21.Pf4 Pe7 22.dxe7+ Dxe7 23.Td1 Kg8 24.Td6 Lc6 25.Te3 b5 26.Ph3 Lxf3 27.Dxf3 Pe6 28.Dd1 a4 29.Kh2 Pf8 30.g3 Tc5 (964.941.174) 777 47/59 21:09 +1.79++ 17...Pb3 (987.397.096) 777 47/59 21:20 +2.03-- 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 (996.098.297) 777 47/59 22:28 +1.85++ 17...Pb3 (1.049.261.968) 778 47/65 22:58 +1.64++ 17...Pb3 (1.072.744.193) 778 47/67 24:11 +1.89 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 Pc5 19.Pe2 a5 20.Pf4 Pe7 21.dxe7+ Dxe7 22.Td1 Kg8 23.Td6 a4 24.Te3 Tc8 25.Ph3 Tc6 26.Pd4 Txd6 27.Pf5 Td1+ 28.Kh2 Df8 29.Dxd1 Le4 30.Pd6 Lc6 (1.130.557.503) 778 48/61 25:48 +1.94-- 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 (1.205.018.847) 778 48/61 28:32 +2.06-- 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 (1.330.707.958) 777 48/65 31:30 +2.21-- 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 (1.468.398.900) 776 48/65 31:56 +2.07++ 17...Pb3 (1.488.754.953) 776 48/65 32:07 +1.82++ 17...Pb3 (1.497.622.543) 776 48/69 32:17 +2.16 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 Pc5 19.Pe2 a5 20.Tc3 Tc8 21.Pf4 Pe7 22.dxe7+ Dxe7 23.Td1 Kg8 24.Td6 Lxf3 25.Dxf3 Dxe5 26.Txb6 De1+ 27.Kh2 De5 28.g3 Df5 29.g4 Dg5 30.Pd3 Dd8 (1.505.627.521) 776 49/64 33:32 +2.20-- 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 (1.562.903.199) 776 49/71 33:48 +2.07++ 17...Pb3 (1.575.995.483) 776 49/71 34:04 +1.91++ 17...Pb3 (1.588.994.002) 777 49/71 34:08 +1.96 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 Pc5 19.Pe2 a5 20.Tc3 Tc8 21.Pf4 Pe7 22.dxe7+ Dxe7 23.Td1 Kg8 24.Td6 Lxf3 25.Dxf3 Dxe5 26.Txb6 De1+ 27.Kh2 De5 28.g3 Df5 29.g4 Dg5 30.Pd3 Dd8 (1.591.582.266) 777 50/67 35:23 +2.08-- 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 (1.648.907.180) 776 50/67 35:52 +1.96++ 17...Pb3 (1.672.077.030) 776 50/67 36:59 +2.20-- 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 (1.723.616.744) 776 50/70 37:13 +2.00++ 17...Pb3 (1.735.151.773) 776 50/70 37:54 +1.75 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 Pc5 19.Pe2 a5 20.Tc3 Tc8 21.Pf4 Pe7 22.dxe7+ Dxe7 23.Td1 Kg8 24.Td6 Lxf3 25.Dxf3 Dxe5 26.Txb6 De1+ 27.Kh2 De5 28.g3 Df5 29.g4 Dg5 30.Pd3 Dd8 (1.767.153.691) 777 51/71 40:13 +1.73++ 17...Pb3 (1.876.860.156) 777 51/71 40:54 +1.96-- 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 (1.908.317.834) 777 51/71 43:48 +2.11-- 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 (2.043.238.315) 777 51/83 53:59 +2.31-- 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 (2.518.225.701) 777 51/83 55:14 +2.13++ 17...Pb3 (2.577.812.272) 777 51/83 57:21 +2.30 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 Pc5 19.Pe2 a5 20.Tc3 Tc8 21.Pf4 Pe7 22.dxe7+ Dxe7 23.Td1 Kg8 24.Td6 Te8 25.Te3 Pe6 26.Pe2 Kh7 27.Df5+ Kg8 28.Pc3 Th7 29.Dd3 Lc6 30.Pd5 Dd8 (2.676.615.722) 777 52/72 59:52 +2.12++ 17...Pb3 (2.795.644.451) 778 52/72 60:09 +1.99++ 17...Pb3 (2.808.638.091) 778 52/73 61:42 +2.27 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 Pc5 19.Pe2 a5 20.Tc3 Tc8 21.Pf4 Pe7 22.dxe7+ Dxe7 23.Td1 Kg8 24.Td6 Tf8 25.Te3 Pe6 26.Pe2 Kh7 27.Df5+ Kg8 28.Txb6 Lxf3 29.Dxf3 f5 30.Tb7 Kh7 (2.881.623.078) 778 53/68 62:34 +2.06++ 17...Pb3 (2.922.966.609) 778 53/68 62:55 +1.93++ 17...Pb3 (2.939.858.351) 778 53/73 69:21 +2.33-- 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 (3.235.951.680) 777 53/78 75:44 +2.30 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 Pc5 19.Pe2 a5 20.Tc3 Tc8 21.Pf4 Pe7 22.dxe7+ Dxe7 23.Td1 Kg8 24.Td6 Tf8 25.Te3 Pe6 26.Pe2 Tc8 27.Txb6 Lc6 28.Ped4 Pxd4 29.Dxd4 Kh7 30.Dd3+ g6 (3.534.145.727) 777 54/75 78:31 +2.13++ 17...Pb3 (3.665.416.174) 778 54/75 78:43 +2.00++ 17...Pb3 (3.675.283.826) 778 54/78 82:23 +1.82++ 17...Pb3 (3.850.609.373) 778 54/79 96:01 +2.05 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 Pc5 19.Pe2 a5 20.Pf4 Pe7 21.dxe7+ Dxe7 22.Td1 Kg8 23.Td6 Te8 24.Te3 Pe6 25.Pe2 Tc8 26.Txb6 Lc6 27.Ped4 Pxd4 28.Dxd4 De6 29.Ph4 Dd5 30.Dg4 De6 (4.475.099.654) 776 55/71 97:44 +1.88++ 17...Pb3 (4.544.367.301) 774 55/76 103:02 +2.12-- 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 (4.786.500.563) 774 55/76 106:03 +2.12 17...Pb3 18.Ta3 (4.926.787.788) 774 beste zet: Pa5-b3 tijd: 106:03.485 min n/s: 774.226 nodes: 4.926.787.788
The structural problems that Black has in the position still seem very large. But the White squared Bishop is not totally immobilized anymore on c8 I forgot to mention that as one of the weaknesses in the first PV, that alone is worth a Bishop.
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texium
Posts : 112Join date : 2022-07-19 Subject: Re: Can engines find the correct move in this position? Tue Sep 06, 2022 6:20 am my cfish 12 can see it by depth 15 on nnue=pure, although its not using a stockfish net but a net trained on the caissa database. interestingly, the same net does not output d5 when using with the rodent nnue engine which tends to play like a GM, probably because a human would never play d5 and has yet.
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Subject: Re: Can engines find the correct move in this position?