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 GM Hans Niemann's Smoking GUN and proof of cheating game.

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mwyoung

mwyoung


Posts : 880
Join date : 2020-11-25
Location : USA

GM Hans Niemann's Smoking GUN and proof of cheating game.  Empty
PostSubject: GM Hans Niemann's Smoking GUN and proof of cheating game.    GM Hans Niemann's Smoking GUN and proof of cheating game.  EmptyFri Sep 30, 2022 1:50 am

I hate to break the news. But GM Hans Niemann did not play the perfect game. And Let's Check is awful at cheat detection. And Chessbase says not to use Let's Check for cheat detection. Chessbase does have cheat detection and it is called Centipawn analysis. Here are the results.

[pgn][Event "Charlotte CCCSA Fall GM"]
[Site "Charlotte"]
[Date "2020.10.04"]
[Round "8"]
[White "Mishra, Abhimanyu"]
[Black "Niemann, Hans Moke"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "C55"]
[WhiteElo "2342"]
[BlackElo "2465"]
[PlyCount "112"]
[EventDate "2020.09.30"]
[EventType "tourn"]
[EventRounds "9"]
[EventCountry "USA"]
[EventCategory "8"]
[SourceTitle "EXT 2021"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "2020.10.23"]
[SourceVersion "1"]
[SourceVersionDate "2020.10.23"]
[SourceQuality "1"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. d3 h6 {Flaming Titz 230822 AVX2:} 5. c3 d6 6. O-O g5 7. Nbd2 g4 {Inaccurate} 8. Ne1 h5 9. f4 {OK} exf4 10. Rxf4 {Inaccurate} Bh6 11. Rf1 {OK} Qe7 12. Nb3 {Inaccurate} Ne5 {Best} 13. Bxh6 {OK} Rxh6 14. Nd2 {Mistake (1.1)} (14. Nd4 $11) 14... Bd7 {Mistake (0.9)} (14... g3 $1 $17) 15. Bb3 {Inaccurate} g3 $1 {Strong} 16. h3 {OK} Nfg4 $1 {Strong} 17. Qe2 {OK} Nh2 $1 {Strong} 18. Qe3 $1 {Strong} Rh7 {OK} 19. Rf4 $2 {Loses game (1.7)} (19. Qxg3 $15) 19... h4 $1 $19 {Strong} 20. d4 Ng6 {OK} 21. Nd3 {OK} O-O-O $1 {Strong} 22. Re1 {OK} Re8 {Mistake (1.3)} (22... Nxf4 $19) 23. e5 $17 {Best} Nxf4 {OK} 24. Nxf4 {Inaccurate} c6 {Mistake (1.2)} (24... Rh6 $1 $17) 25. Nc4 $11 {OK} d5 {Inaccurate} 26. Nd6+ $2 {Loses game (2.Cool} (26. Nd2 $14) 26... Qxd6 $1 $19 {Strong} 27. exd6 {Inaccurate} Rxe3 {OK} 28. Rxe3 Rh6 {Best (Easy)} 29. Ne2 {Best} Re6 $1 {Strong} 30. Rxe6 {OK} Bxe6 31. Bc2 Kd7 {OK} 32. Nf4 Kxd6 {Best (Easy)} 33. b4 b5 {Mistake (1.4)} (33... Ke7 $19) 34. a4 {Inaccurate} bxa4 {OK} 35. Bxa4 Bf5 {OK} 36. Bb3 {Mistake (1.0)} (36. Bd1 $142) 36... Be6 {Mistake (1.3)} (36... Bc8 $19) 37. Ba4 {Inaccurate} Bc8 38. Bd1 $2 (38. Nd3) 38... Ba6 $1 $19 39. Be2 Bxe2 40. Nxe2 Ke6 41. Nc1 Kf5 42. Nb3 Ke4 43. Na5 {[#]} f5 $1 44. Nxc6 {[#]} f4 $1 45. b5 f3 46. gxf3+ Nxf3+ 47. Kf1 Ng5 48. Ne5 Nxh3 49. Ng6 g2+ 50. Kxg2 Nf4+ 51. Nxf4 Kxf4 52. Kh3 Ke4 53. Kxh4 Kd3 54. Kg4 Kxc3 55. Kf5 Kxd4 56. Ke6 Kc5 {Strong:   White=1, Black=7 Best:   White=2, Black=3 OK:   White=9, Black=7 Inaccurate:   White=7, Black=2 Mistake:   White=2, Black=5 Loses game:   White=2.  Weighted Error Value: White=0.82/Black=0.14 Centipawn loss: w=61/b=17} 0-1[/pgn]

Mishra played a poor game! And Niemann's game was human played. With many inaccurate moves,  and outright mistakes.
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Uri Blass




Posts : 207
Join date : 2020-11-28

GM Hans Niemann's Smoking GUN and proof of cheating game.  Empty
PostSubject: Re: GM Hans Niemann's Smoking GUN and proof of cheating game.    GM Hans Niemann's Smoking GUN and proof of cheating game.  EmptyFri Sep 30, 2022 6:53 am

mwyoung wrote:
I hate to break the news. But GM Hans Niemann did not play the perfect game. And Let's Check is awful at cheat detection. And Chessbase says not to use Let's Check for cheat detection. Chessbase does have cheat detection and it is called Centipawn analysis. Here are the results.

[pgn][Event "Charlotte CCCSA Fall GM"]
[Site "Charlotte"]
[Date "2020.10.04"]
[Round "8"]
[White "Mishra, Abhimanyu"]
[Black "Niemann, Hans Moke"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "C55"]
[WhiteElo "2342"]
[BlackElo "2465"]
[PlyCount "112"]
[EventDate "2020.09.30"]
[EventType "tourn"]
[EventRounds "9"]
[EventCountry "USA"]
[EventCategory "8"]
[SourceTitle "EXT 2021"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "2020.10.23"]
[SourceVersion "1"]
[SourceVersionDate "2020.10.23"]
[SourceQuality "1"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. d3 h6 {Flaming Titz 230822 AVX2:} 5. c3 d6 6. O-O g5 7. Nbd2 g4 {Inaccurate} 8. Ne1 h5 9. f4 {OK} exf4 10. Rxf4 {Inaccurate} Bh6 11. Rf1 {OK} Qe7 12. Nb3 {Inaccurate} Ne5 {Best} 13. Bxh6 {OK} Rxh6 14. Nd2 {Mistake (1.1)} (14. Nd4 $11) 14... Bd7 {Mistake (0.9)} (14... g3 $1 $17) 15. Bb3 {Inaccurate} g3 $1 {Strong} 16. h3 {OK} Nfg4 $1 {Strong} 17. Qe2 {OK} Nh2 $1 {Strong} 18. Qe3 $1 {Strong} Rh7 {OK} 19. Rf4 $2 {Loses game (1.7)} (19. Qxg3 $15) 19... h4 $1 $19 {Strong} 20. d4 Ng6 {OK} 21. Nd3 {OK} O-O-O $1 {Strong} 22. Re1 {OK} Re8 {Mistake (1.3)} (22... Nxf4 $19) 23. e5 $17 {Best} Nxf4 {OK} 24. Nxf4 {Inaccurate} c6 {Mistake (1.2)} (24... Rh6 $1 $17) 25. Nc4 $11 {OK} d5 {Inaccurate} 26. Nd6+ $2 {Loses game (2.Cool} (26. Nd2 $14) 26... Qxd6 $1 $19 {Strong} 27. exd6 {Inaccurate} Rxe3 {OK} 28. Rxe3 Rh6 {Best (Easy)} 29. Ne2 {Best} Re6 $1 {Strong} 30. Rxe6 {OK} Bxe6 31. Bc2 Kd7 {OK} 32. Nf4 Kxd6 {Best (Easy)} 33. b4 b5 {Mistake (1.4)} (33... Ke7 $19) 34. a4 {Inaccurate} bxa4 {OK} 35. Bxa4 Bf5 {OK} 36. Bb3 {Mistake (1.0)} (36. Bd1 $142) 36... Be6 {Mistake (1.3)} (36... Bc8 $19) 37. Ba4 {Inaccurate} Bc8 38. Bd1 $2 (38. Nd3) 38... Ba6 $1 $19 39. Be2 Bxe2 40. Nxe2 Ke6 41. Nc1 Kf5 42. Nb3 Ke4 43. Na5 {[#]} f5 $1 44. Nxc6 {[#]} f4 $1 45. b5 f3 46. gxf3+ Nxf3+ 47. Kf1 Ng5 48. Ne5 Nxh3 49. Ng6 g2+ 50. Kxg2 Nf4+ 51. Nxf4 Kxf4 52. Kh3 Ke4 53. Kxh4 Kd3 54. Kg4 Kxc3 55. Kf5 Kxd4 56. Ke6 Kc5 {Strong:   White=1, Black=7 Best:   White=2, Black=3 OK:   White=9, Black=7 Inaccurate:   White=7, Black=2 Mistake:   White=2, Black=5 Loses game:   White=2.  Weighted Error Value: White=0.82/Black=0.14 Centipawn loss: w=61/b=17} 0-1[/pgn]

Mishra played a poor game! And Niemann's game was human played. With many inaccurate moves,  and outright mistakes.

1)I did not see a convincing evidence that Niemann cheated OTB based on his games.
I believe that he cheated because of different reasons(what he said after the games) but I do not claim to have a proof and of course I am against punishing him with no convincing proof only because of my opinion.

2)It may be interesting to see the average centipawn loss of the same players against players who are more than 100 elo weaker than them and against players who are more than 100 elo stronger then them.

My guess is that there is going to be a significant difference and the same players lose more centipawns per move against stronger players because stronger players make moves that increase their chances to blunder.

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mwyoung

mwyoung


Posts : 880
Join date : 2020-11-25
Location : USA

GM Hans Niemann's Smoking GUN and proof of cheating game.  Empty
PostSubject: Re: GM Hans Niemann's Smoking GUN and proof of cheating game.    GM Hans Niemann's Smoking GUN and proof of cheating game.  EmptyFri Sep 30, 2022 11:07 am

Uri Blass wrote:
mwyoung wrote:
I hate to break the news. But GM Hans Niemann did not play the perfect game. And Let's Check is awful at cheat detection. And Chessbase says not to use Let's Check for cheat detection. Chessbase does have cheat detection and it is called Centipawn analysis. Here are the results.

[pgn][Event "Charlotte CCCSA Fall GM"]
[Site "Charlotte"]
[Date "2020.10.04"]
[Round "8"]
[White "Mishra, Abhimanyu"]
[Black "Niemann, Hans Moke"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "C55"]
[WhiteElo "2342"]
[BlackElo "2465"]
[PlyCount "112"]
[EventDate "2020.09.30"]
[EventType "tourn"]
[EventRounds "9"]
[EventCountry "USA"]
[EventCategory "8"]
[SourceTitle "EXT 2021"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "2020.10.23"]
[SourceVersion "1"]
[SourceVersionDate "2020.10.23"]
[SourceQuality "1"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. d3 h6 {Flaming Titz 230822 AVX2:} 5. c3 d6 6. O-O g5 7. Nbd2 g4 {Inaccurate} 8. Ne1 h5 9. f4 {OK} exf4 10. Rxf4 {Inaccurate} Bh6 11. Rf1 {OK} Qe7 12. Nb3 {Inaccurate} Ne5 {Best} 13. Bxh6 {OK} Rxh6 14. Nd2 {Mistake (1.1)} (14. Nd4 $11) 14... Bd7 {Mistake (0.9)} (14... g3 $1 $17) 15. Bb3 {Inaccurate} g3 $1 {Strong} 16. h3 {OK} Nfg4 $1 {Strong} 17. Qe2 {OK} Nh2 $1 {Strong} 18. Qe3 $1 {Strong} Rh7 {OK} 19. Rf4 $2 {Loses game (1.7)} (19. Qxg3 $15) 19... h4 $1 $19 {Strong} 20. d4 Ng6 {OK} 21. Nd3 {OK} O-O-O $1 {Strong} 22. Re1 {OK} Re8 {Mistake (1.3)} (22... Nxf4 $19) 23. e5 $17 {Best} Nxf4 {OK} 24. Nxf4 {Inaccurate} c6 {Mistake (1.2)} (24... Rh6 $1 $17) 25. Nc4 $11 {OK} d5 {Inaccurate} 26. Nd6+ $2 {Loses game (2.Cool} (26. Nd2 $14) 26... Qxd6 $1 $19 {Strong} 27. exd6 {Inaccurate} Rxe3 {OK} 28. Rxe3 Rh6 {Best (Easy)} 29. Ne2 {Best} Re6 $1 {Strong} 30. Rxe6 {OK} Bxe6 31. Bc2 Kd7 {OK} 32. Nf4 Kxd6 {Best (Easy)} 33. b4 b5 {Mistake (1.4)} (33... Ke7 $19) 34. a4 {Inaccurate} bxa4 {OK} 35. Bxa4 Bf5 {OK} 36. Bb3 {Mistake (1.0)} (36. Bd1 $142) 36... Be6 {Mistake (1.3)} (36... Bc8 $19) 37. Ba4 {Inaccurate} Bc8 38. Bd1 $2 (38. Nd3) 38... Ba6 $1 $19 39. Be2 Bxe2 40. Nxe2 Ke6 41. Nc1 Kf5 42. Nb3 Ke4 43. Na5 {[#]} f5 $1 44. Nxc6 {[#]} f4 $1 45. b5 f3 46. gxf3+ Nxf3+ 47. Kf1 Ng5 48. Ne5 Nxh3 49. Ng6 g2+ 50. Kxg2 Nf4+ 51. Nxf4 Kxf4 52. Kh3 Ke4 53. Kxh4 Kd3 54. Kg4 Kxc3 55. Kf5 Kxd4 56. Ke6 Kc5 {Strong:   White=1, Black=7 Best:   White=2, Black=3 OK:   White=9, Black=7 Inaccurate:   White=7, Black=2 Mistake:   White=2, Black=5 Loses game:   White=2.  Weighted Error Value: White=0.82/Black=0.14 Centipawn loss: w=61/b=17} 0-1[/pgn]

Mishra played a poor game! And Niemann's game was human played. With many inaccurate moves,  and outright mistakes.

1)I did not see a convincing evidence that Niemann cheated OTB based on his games.
I believe that he cheated because of different reasons(what he said after the games) but I do not claim to have a proof and of course I am against punishing him with no convincing proof only because of my opinion.

2)It may be interesting to see the average centipawn loss of the same players against players who are more than 100 elo weaker than them and against players who are more than 100 elo stronger then them.

My guess is that there is going to be a significant difference and the same players lose more centipawns per move against stronger players because stronger players make moves that increase their chances to blunder.


We know GM Hans Niemann Cheated in the past he admitted to that. Along with Many GM players in the top 50.

But this is not the issue. The charge is GM Hans Niemann cheated against GM Magnus Carlsen.

Unlike most people I did look at ALL of GM Hans Niemann chess games. Every one of them. To see if GM Hans Niemann is clean today like GM Hans Niemann claimed in his interview. And it seems GM Hans Niemann is telling the truth.
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GM Hans Niemann's Smoking GUN and proof of cheating game.  Empty
PostSubject: Re: GM Hans Niemann's Smoking GUN and proof of cheating game.    GM Hans Niemann's Smoking GUN and proof of cheating game.  Empty

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