Posts : 1254 Join date : 2020-11-17 Location : France
Subject: Results of the top ten strongest engines tourney at CCRL Mon Jul 24, 2023 4:26 pm
Not a bad result for CSTal first outing, the tourney (I think) managed to rank the engines in what’s probably the correct order. The opening book was way too drawish though. Graham Banks being very stubborn(!!) about refusing to use unbalanced opening pairs which would (partly) solve the problem. A new 7 round Swiss has just started, same engines plus another ten or so - using a modified book and back to back Swiss pairing.
This is (probably) the last "Gambit Rating List" and look at the low draw rate.
The wait is for CEGT and CCRL to create one themselves.
From experience I know the best engines profit the most, likely because their search is superior.
But who cares.
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mwyoung
Posts : 880 Join date : 2020-11-25 Location : USA
Subject: Re: Results of the top ten strongest engines tourney at CCRL Mon Jul 24, 2023 9:37 pm
Graham is not being stubborn. Graham is being correct.
The opening position in chess is balanced. Why would you force a 4000 Elo chess engine. To play a 1000 Elo opening.
If a chess engine is better. The better chess engine will win. Without manufacturing wins.
As the results show!
If high quality players are close in rating. A high draw rate is what you should expect. This is true in human, and computer chess.
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Admin Admin
Posts : 2608 Join date : 2020-11-17 Location : Netherlands
Subject: Re: Results of the top ten strongest engines tourney at CCRL Mon Jul 24, 2023 10:03 pm
Depends how you look at it.
What has the GRL proven?
1. The engine order of the GRL is similar to the regular rating lists. 2. The draw rate has dropped significantly.
What statistically happens, example : SF plays a game against an 100 elo lesser engine, 2 possibilities - 1. SF has a favorable (not won) opening, it usually wins. 2. In the reverse game it usually draws, sometimes wins, seldom loses. So on average 1½ for SF. 3. Hardly boring draws.
The challenge for the 100 elo lesser engine is to win the favorable opening and draw the reverse game by a good defense, so also get 1½ out of 2.
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Nezhman
Posts : 74 Join date : 2020-11-27
Subject: Re: Results of the top ten strongest engines tourney at CCRL Mon Jul 24, 2023 10:58 pm
mwyoung wrote:
Graham is not being stubborn. Graham is being correct.
The opening position in chess is balanced. Why would you force a 4000 Elo chess engine. To play a 1000 Elo opening.
If a chess engine is better. The better chess engine will win. Without manufacturing wins.
As the results show!
If high quality players are close in rating. A high draw rate is what you should expect. This is true in human, and computer chess.
That sounds like a straw man argument. I suspect no one's in favor of playing 1000 Elo openings.
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Admin Admin
Posts : 2608 Join date : 2020-11-17 Location : Netherlands
Subject: Re: Results of the top ten strongest engines tourney at CCRL Mon Jul 24, 2023 11:22 pm
Some of us look at games.
mwyoung
Posts : 880 Join date : 2020-11-25 Location : USA
Subject: Re: Results of the top ten strongest engines tourney at CCRL Tue Jul 25, 2023 12:40 am
Nezhman wrote:
mwyoung wrote:
Graham is not being stubborn. Graham is being correct.
The opening position in chess is balanced. Why would you force a 4000 Elo chess engine. To play a 1000 Elo opening.
If a chess engine is better. The better chess engine will win. Without manufacturing wins.
As the results show!
If high quality players are close in rating. A high draw rate is what you should expect. This is true in human, and computer chess.
That sounds like a straw man argument. I suspect no one's in favor of playing 1000 Elo openings.
TCEC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They are just losing positions.
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mwyoung
Posts : 880 Join date : 2020-11-25 Location : USA
Subject: Re: Results of the top ten strongest engines tourney at CCRL Tue Jul 25, 2023 12:46 am
Admin wrote:
Depends how you look at it.
What has the GRL proven?
1. The engine order of the GRL is similar to the regular rating lists. 2. The draw rate has dropped significantly.
What statistically happens, example : SF plays a game against an 100 elo lesser engine, 2 possibilities - 1. SF has a favorable (not won) opening, it usually wins. 2. In the reverse game it usually draws, sometimes wins, seldom loses. So on average 1½ for SF. 3. Hardly boring draws.
The challenge for the 100 elo lesser engine is to win the favorable opening and draw the reverse game by a good defense, so also get 1½ out of 2.
It has to do with the philosophy of testing. As testers we advocate for both chess engines.
Meaning when you played Anand, or other matches with Rebel. You obviously did not play garbage openings to force a loss. So you could decrease the draw rate.
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Admin Admin
Posts : 2608 Join date : 2020-11-17 Location : Netherlands
Subject: Re: Results of the top ten strongest engines tourney at CCRL Tue Jul 25, 2023 1:31 am
mwyoung wrote:
Nezhman wrote:
mwyoung wrote:
Graham is not being stubborn. Graham is being correct.
The opening position in chess is balanced. Why would you force a 4000 Elo chess engine. To play a 1000 Elo opening.
If a chess engine is better. The better chess engine will win. Without manufacturing wins.
As the results show!
If high quality players are close in rating. A high draw rate is what you should expect. This is true in human, and computer chess.
That sounds like a straw man argument. I suspect no one's in favor of playing 1000 Elo openings.
TCEC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And yet SF wins most of the times.
Quote :
They are just losing positions.
Losing is a big word, 3400+ engines would win, fact is they don't.
A final with 99 draws out of 100 isn't attractive, people leave.
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mwyoung
Posts : 880 Join date : 2020-11-25 Location : USA
Subject: Re: Results of the top ten strongest engines tourney at CCRL Tue Jul 25, 2023 2:26 am
Admin wrote:
mwyoung wrote:
Nezhman wrote:
mwyoung wrote:
Graham is not being stubborn. Graham is being correct.
The opening position in chess is balanced. Why would you force a 4000 Elo chess engine. To play a 1000 Elo opening.
If a chess engine is better. The better chess engine will win. Without manufacturing wins.
As the results show!
If high quality players are close in rating. A high draw rate is what you should expect. This is true in human, and computer chess.
That sounds like a straw man argument. I suspect no one's in favor of playing 1000 Elo openings.
TCEC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And yet SF wins most of the times.
Quote :
They are just losing positions.
Losing is a big word, 3400+ engines would win, fact is they don't.
A final with 99 draws out of 100 isn't attractive, people leave.
Exactly!
And now you test the same way. And with no motive for people watching, and making you money by forcing wins. Wins for views is not how real testers test.
And I see you did not play this way. When playing matches with Rebel back in the day. Why??? We know the answer....
Because you were advocating for your chess engine. And you are not stupid, and did not play garbage openings.
If you are advocating for both chess engines. It is impossible to play a losing opening in chess. As chess start with a equal chess position, and white has no known way to force a win.
As chess engine testers. We are only interested in what the chess engine can force.
Losing is a big word, 3400+ engines would win, fact is they don't.
A final with 99 draws out of 100 isn't attractive, people leave.
I posted in TCEC own words, that the goal was to use openings with over a pawn advantage to do this very thing. This is just a fact.
And the fact is the best chess engines always wins. With balanced openings.
And I guess I would know, as I have tested many thousands of games with balanced openings.
The results of Chess System Tal and Stockfish 16 prove this point again. And both chess engines are well above 3400+ Elo.
Last edited by mwyoung on Tue Jul 25, 2023 11:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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Nezhman
Posts : 74 Join date : 2020-11-27
Subject: Re: Results of the top ten strongest engines tourney at CCRL Tue Jul 25, 2023 7:34 am
mwyoung wrote:
Admin wrote:
Depends how you look at it.
What has the GRL proven?
1. The engine order of the GRL is similar to the regular rating lists. 2. The draw rate has dropped significantly.
What statistically happens, example : SF plays a game against an 100 elo lesser engine, 2 possibilities - 1. SF has a favorable (not won) opening, it usually wins. 2. In the reverse game it usually draws, sometimes wins, seldom loses. So on average 1½ for SF. 3. Hardly boring draws.
The challenge for the 100 elo lesser engine is to win the favorable opening and draw the reverse game by a good defense, so also get 1½ out of 2.
It has to do with the philosophy of testing. As testers we advocate for both chess engines.
Meaning when you played Anand, or other matches with Rebel. You obviously did not play garbage openings to force a loss. So you could decrease the draw rate.
Anand vs Rebel and engine-engine testing is apples and oranges.
Given a choice, a human will go with his favorite lines of play and not play some balloted openings. You can't really afford to do that as an engine-engine tester, since you'll see the same openings over and over, so you'll have to assign the openings from a book/suite.
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mwyoung
Posts : 880 Join date : 2020-11-25 Location : USA
Subject: Re: Results of the top ten strongest engines tourney at CCRL Tue Jul 25, 2023 11:32 am
Nezhman wrote:
mwyoung wrote:
Admin wrote:
Depends how you look at it.
What has the GRL proven?
1. The engine order of the GRL is similar to the regular rating lists. 2. The draw rate has dropped significantly.
What statistically happens, example : SF plays a game against an 100 elo lesser engine, 2 possibilities - 1. SF has a favorable (not won) opening, it usually wins. 2. In the reverse game it usually draws, sometimes wins, seldom loses. So on average 1½ for SF. 3. Hardly boring draws.
The challenge for the 100 elo lesser engine is to win the favorable opening and draw the reverse game by a good defense, so also get 1½ out of 2.
It has to do with the philosophy of testing. As testers we advocate for both chess engines.
Meaning when you played Anand, or other matches with Rebel. You obviously did not play garbage openings to force a loss. So you could decrease the draw rate.
Anand vs Rebel and engine-engine testing is apples and oranges.
Given a choice, a human will go with his favorite lines of play and not play some balloted openings. You can't really afford to do that as an engine-engine tester, since you'll see the same openings over and over, so you'll have to assign the openings from a book/suite.
It is exactly the same thing.
Both sides are TRYING to play the best moves for each side. And are playing what they think is best.
Not playing garbage to force wins, and lower draw rates. So more people will watch the games like TCEC.
When your goal is to force wins, and lower draw rates. And you are not playing the best moves. And you are corrupting the results of the outcome of the games.
And doing so not by the chess engines own hands, but your hands.
The goal is to use as few opening moves as possible to avoid repeat games. CCRL uses 6 to 12 moves as a standard. I use 6 moves as my standard. And playing the best moves for each side.
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Uri Blass
Posts : 207 Join date : 2020-11-28
Subject: Re: Results of the top ten strongest engines tourney at CCRL Tue Jul 25, 2023 9:57 pm
Nezhman wrote:
mwyoung wrote:
Admin wrote:
Depends how you look at it.
What has the GRL proven?
1. The engine order of the GRL is similar to the regular rating lists. 2. The draw rate has dropped significantly.
What statistically happens, example : SF plays a game against an 100 elo lesser engine, 2 possibilities - 1. SF has a favorable (not won) opening, it usually wins. 2. In the reverse game it usually draws, sometimes wins, seldom loses. So on average 1½ for SF. 3. Hardly boring draws.
The challenge for the 100 elo lesser engine is to win the favorable opening and draw the reverse game by a good defense, so also get 1½ out of 2.
It has to do with the philosophy of testing. As testers we advocate for both chess engines.
Meaning when you played Anand, or other matches with Rebel. You obviously did not play garbage openings to force a loss. So you could decrease the draw rate.
Anand vs Rebel and engine-engine testing is apples and oranges.
Given a choice, a human will go with his favorite lines of play and not play some balloted openings. You can't really afford to do that as an engine-engine tester, since you'll see the same openings over and over, so you'll have to assign the openings from a book/suite.
Chess engines are not deterministic with many cores so I expect you not to see the same openings over and over.
You can use analysis by the engines to generate some opening book for engines so even with book the engines will never play a move that they never by themselves.
Here is my idea for it: Step 1:Analyze move 1 of white by the engines when every engine get 10 tries at 1 minute per move and add the different moves that the engine is going to play with white to the engine's opening book Step 2:Analyze all the new positions that you have in book by all engines when all engines get 10 tries to add for them moves for their black opening book at move 1. Step 3:Analyze all the positions that engines can get at move 2 of white at 1 minutes per move when every engine get 10 tries and continue in this way.
Note that in this step part of the positions may be relevant only for part of the engines because if engine A never played 1.d4 then the position after 1.d4 d5 is not relevant for it. Continue in this way.
I believe that even after step 20 you will get more than 100 book lines that are relevant for every pair of top engines.
Nezhman
Posts : 74 Join date : 2020-11-27
Subject: Re: Results of the top ten strongest engines tourney at CCRL Wed Jul 26, 2023 5:11 am
Yes, the top engines are not deterministic, so you'll not see the *exact* same game twice, most likely, but over the long haul similar openings will be played, if no book is used, and the tendency will be very drawish.
A better test in my view, is to test engines with a variety of openings: balanced, unbalanced, gambits, to cover the whole gamut of playable, reasonable chess according to human standards, since it is humans who use these engines.
Last edited by Nezhman on Wed Jul 26, 2023 5:15 am; edited 1 time in total
Nezhman
Posts : 74 Join date : 2020-11-27
Subject: Re: Results of the top ten strongest engines tourney at CCRL Wed Jul 26, 2023 5:14 am
mwyoung wrote:
Nezhman wrote:
mwyoung wrote:
Admin wrote:
Depends how you look at it.
What has the GRL proven?
1. The engine order of the GRL is similar to the regular rating lists. 2. The draw rate has dropped significantly.
What statistically happens, example : SF plays a game against an 100 elo lesser engine, 2 possibilities - 1. SF has a favorable (not won) opening, it usually wins. 2. In the reverse game it usually draws, sometimes wins, seldom loses. So on average 1½ for SF. 3. Hardly boring draws.
The challenge for the 100 elo lesser engine is to win the favorable opening and draw the reverse game by a good defense, so also get 1½ out of 2.
It has to do with the philosophy of testing. As testers we advocate for both chess engines.
Meaning when you played Anand, or other matches with Rebel. You obviously did not play garbage openings to force a loss. So you could decrease the draw rate.
Anand vs Rebel and engine-engine testing is apples and oranges.
Given a choice, a human will go with his favorite lines of play and not play some balloted openings. You can't really afford to do that as an engine-engine tester, since you'll see the same openings over and over, so you'll have to assign the openings from a book/suite.
It is exactly the same thing.
Both sides are TRYING to play the best moves for each side. And are playing what they think is best.
Not playing garbage to force wins, and lower draw rates. So more people will watch the games like TCEC.
When your goal is to force wins, and lower draw rates. And you are not playing the best moves. And you are corrupting the results of the outcome of the games.
And doing so not by the chess engines own hands, but your hands.
The goal is to use as few opening moves as possible to avoid repeat games. CCRL uses 6 to 12 moves as a standard. I use 6 moves as my standard. And playing the best moves for each side.
Of course, it can seem all the same to you, but intellect is about the ability to discern differences... I choose the latter...
mwyoung
Posts : 880 Join date : 2020-11-25 Location : USA
Subject: Re: Results of the top ten strongest engines tourney at CCRL Wed Jul 26, 2023 6:33 am
Nezhman wrote:
mwyoung wrote:
Nezhman wrote:
mwyoung wrote:
Admin wrote:
Depends how you look at it.
What has the GRL proven?
1. The engine order of the GRL is similar to the regular rating lists. 2. The draw rate has dropped significantly.
What statistically happens, example : SF plays a game against an 100 elo lesser engine, 2 possibilities - 1. SF has a favorable (not won) opening, it usually wins. 2. In the reverse game it usually draws, sometimes wins, seldom loses. So on average 1½ for SF. 3. Hardly boring draws.
The challenge for the 100 elo lesser engine is to win the favorable opening and draw the reverse game by a good defense, so also get 1½ out of 2.
It has to do with the philosophy of testing. As testers we advocate for both chess engines.
Meaning when you played Anand, or other matches with Rebel. You obviously did not play garbage openings to force a loss. So you could decrease the draw rate.
Anand vs Rebel and engine-engine testing is apples and oranges.
Given a choice, a human will go with his favorite lines of play and not play some balloted openings. You can't really afford to do that as an engine-engine tester, since you'll see the same openings over and over, so you'll have to assign the openings from a book/suite.
It is exactly the same thing.
Both sides are TRYING to play the best moves for each side. And are playing what they think is best.
Not playing garbage to force wins, and lower draw rates. So more people will watch the games like TCEC.
When your goal is to force wins, and lower draw rates. And you are not playing the best moves. And you are corrupting the results of the outcome of the games.
And doing so not by the chess engines own hands, but your hands.
The goal is to use as few opening moves as possible to avoid repeat games. CCRL uses 6 to 12 moves as a standard. I use 6 moves as my standard. And playing the best moves for each side.
Of course, it can seem all the same to you, but intellect is about the ability to discern differences... I choose the latter...
It looks like you can not even discern your ass from a hole in the ground. And it is just fascinating. When you are trying to get the best results for the chess engine. Not ONE garbage opening was played!
Subject: Re: Results of the top ten strongest engines tourney at CCRL Wed Jul 26, 2023 11:06 pm
mwyoung wrote:
Nezhman wrote:
mwyoung wrote:
Nezhman wrote:
mwyoung wrote:
Admin wrote:
Depends how you look at it.
What has the GRL proven?
1. The engine order of the GRL is similar to the regular rating lists. 2. The draw rate has dropped significantly.
What statistically happens, example : SF plays a game against an 100 elo lesser engine, 2 possibilities - 1. SF has a favorable (not won) opening, it usually wins. 2. In the reverse game it usually draws, sometimes wins, seldom loses. So on average 1½ for SF. 3. Hardly boring draws.
The challenge for the 100 elo lesser engine is to win the favorable opening and draw the reverse game by a good defense, so also get 1½ out of 2.
It has to do with the philosophy of testing. As testers we advocate for both chess engines.
Meaning when you played Anand, or other matches with Rebel. You obviously did not play garbage openings to force a loss. So you could decrease the draw rate.
Anand vs Rebel and engine-engine testing is apples and oranges.
Given a choice, a human will go with his favorite lines of play and not play some balloted openings. You can't really afford to do that as an engine-engine tester, since you'll see the same openings over and over, so you'll have to assign the openings from a book/suite.
It is exactly the same thing.
Both sides are TRYING to play the best moves for each side. And are playing what they think is best.
Not playing garbage to force wins, and lower draw rates. So more people will watch the games like TCEC.
When your goal is to force wins, and lower draw rates. And you are not playing the best moves. And you are corrupting the results of the outcome of the games.
And doing so not by the chess engines own hands, but your hands.
The goal is to use as few opening moves as possible to avoid repeat games. CCRL uses 6 to 12 moves as a standard. I use 6 moves as my standard. And playing the best moves for each side.
Of course, it can seem all the same to you, but intellect is about the ability to discern differences... I choose the latter...
It looks like you can not even discern your ass from a hole in the ground.
I could say a lot worse about you, but I don't have to - you did it for me!
I pointed out two logical fallacies in the posts I replied to, and then all you have left is ad hominem insults. For a guy who mentions 'logic' in his sig...
mwyoung
Posts : 880 Join date : 2020-11-25 Location : USA
Subject: Re: Results of the top ten strongest engines tourney at CCRL Wed Jul 26, 2023 11:42 pm
Nezhman wrote:
mwyoung wrote:
Nezhman wrote:
mwyoung wrote:
Nezhman wrote:
mwyoung wrote:
Admin wrote:
Depends how you look at it.
What has the GRL proven?
1. The engine order of the GRL is similar to the regular rating lists. 2. The draw rate has dropped significantly.
What statistically happens, example : SF plays a game against an 100 elo lesser engine, 2 possibilities - 1. SF has a favorable (not won) opening, it usually wins. 2. In the reverse game it usually draws, sometimes wins, seldom loses. So on average 1½ for SF. 3. Hardly boring draws.
The challenge for the 100 elo lesser engine is to win the favorable opening and draw the reverse game by a good defense, so also get 1½ out of 2.
It has to do with the philosophy of testing. As testers we advocate for both chess engines.
Meaning when you played Anand, or other matches with Rebel. You obviously did not play garbage openings to force a loss. So you could decrease the draw rate.
Anand vs Rebel and engine-engine testing is apples and oranges.
Given a choice, a human will go with his favorite lines of play and not play some balloted openings. You can't really afford to do that as an engine-engine tester, since you'll see the same openings over and over, so you'll have to assign the openings from a book/suite.
It is exactly the same thing.
Both sides are TRYING to play the best moves for each side. And are playing what they think is best.
Not playing garbage to force wins, and lower draw rates. So more people will watch the games like TCEC.
When your goal is to force wins, and lower draw rates. And you are not playing the best moves. And you are corrupting the results of the outcome of the games.
And doing so not by the chess engines own hands, but your hands.
The goal is to use as few opening moves as possible to avoid repeat games. CCRL uses 6 to 12 moves as a standard. I use 6 moves as my standard. And playing the best moves for each side.
Of course, it can seem all the same to you, but intellect is about the ability to discern differences... I choose the latter...
It looks like you can not even discern your ass from a hole in the ground.
I could say a lot worse about you, but I don't have to - you did it for me!
I pointed out two logical fallacies in the posts I replied to, and then all you have left is ad hominem insults. For a guy who mentions 'logic' in his sig...
You gave no logical anything. How does what I wrote. Have anything to do with what you wrote.
And what does that have to do with playing High Tier openings vs Garbage openings or LOW Tier openings. For the purpose of just lowing the draw rate and distorting the game outcome data.
Admin Admin
Posts : 2608 Join date : 2020-11-17 Location : Netherlands
Subject: Re: Results of the top ten strongest engines tourney at CCRL Thu Jul 27, 2023 12:00 am
mwyoung wrote:
Not ONE garbage opening was played!
This was 1998 just one year after the Deep Blue victory over Kasparov, computer chess still in the stone age. The goal was to rely on the then strongest point of a computer which at the same time is the weakest part of the human, create tactics on the board, not necessarily by playing the strongest move. Whether that worked or not is up to everybody's opinion, point is it did not work at all against other engines. It was a strategy that worked IMO.
Fast forward 25 years. it's 2023, Rebel is 800 elo stronger, the result: draws, draws and draws, boring....
So now I am busy to create a net that plays more risky at the cost of some (not much) elo in the hope to see more fireworks on the board and to reduce draws and if the inevitable draws happen they are at least less boring. It's another strategy, this time not to win but to keep my interest in computer chess alive.
Look, I am not arguing the standard way of testing with balanced openings, that is just fine and should be kept. I am advocating a secondary important rating list to keep computer chess alive. None of the 100 positions I used for the GRL is lost and look at the low draw rate and replay some games.
Admin Admin
Posts : 2608 Join date : 2020-11-17 Location : Netherlands
Subject: Re: Results of the top ten strongest engines tourney at CCRL Thu Jul 27, 2023 12:04 am
mwyoung wrote:
For the purpose of just lowing the draw rate and distorting the game outcome data.
So what's your view on TCEC, the real world championship or not?
mwyoung
Posts : 880 Join date : 2020-11-25 Location : USA
Subject: Re: Results of the top ten strongest engines tourney at CCRL Thu Jul 27, 2023 12:28 am
Admin wrote:
mwyoung wrote:
For the purpose of just lowing the draw rate and distorting the game outcome data.
So what's your view on TCEC, the real world championship or not?
I have wrote about this 100 times. TCEC is not watched, or paid attention too. I could not tell you even who is playing.
TCEC is TRASH for using gamed openings.
And I know who the world champ is long before TCEC existed, and I know today.
Last edited by mwyoung on Thu Jul 27, 2023 1:18 am; edited 1 time in total
mwyoung
Posts : 880 Join date : 2020-11-25 Location : USA
Subject: Re: Results of the top ten strongest engines tourney at CCRL Thu Jul 27, 2023 12:37 am
Admin wrote:
mwyoung wrote:
Not ONE garbage opening was played!
This was 1998 just one year after the Deep Blue victory over Kasparov, computer chess still in the stone age. The goal was to rely on the then strongest point of a computer which at the same time is the weakest part of the human, create tactics on the board, not necessarily by playing the strongest move. Whether that worked or not is up to everybody's opinion, point is it did not work at all against other engines. It was a strategy that worked IMO.
Fast forward 25 years. it's 2023, Rebel is 800 elo stronger, the result: draws, draws and draws, boring....
So now I am busy to create a net that plays more risky at the cost of some (not much) elo in the hope to see more fireworks on the board and to reduce draws and if the inevitable draws happen they are at least less boring. It's another strategy, this time not to win but to keep my interest in computer chess alive.
Look, I am not arguing the standard way of testing with balanced openings, that is just fine and should be kept. I am advocating a secondary important rating list to keep computer chess alive. None of the 100 positions I used for the GRL is lost and look at the low draw rate and replay some games.
You are in the wrong line of work as a engine tester. Draws are part of the game. And there is nothing wrong with draws..... And what do you expect, the engines are all around the same Elo level, because they use almost the exact same evaluations. So at this point we are evaluating the search efficiency of the chess engine.
THEN YOU ARE SHOCKED at the draw rate.
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Results of the top ten strongest engines tourney at CCRL
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