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 News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ?

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+19
Eelco
Holofernes
TheSelfImprover
Damir Desevac
mwyoung
Wolfgang
texium
Alex-Microsmeta
pohl4711
Peter Berger
peter
gerhard
Werner
matejst
Chris Whittington
Ipmanchess
Mclane
Admin
Dio
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mwyoung

mwyoung


Posts : 880
Join date : 2020-11-25
Location : USA

News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ?   News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? - Page 8 EmptyThu Jan 05, 2023 11:00 am

Dio wrote:
there were first tests by CEGT. The GUI used was the Banksia GUI. This GUI has no timemargin setting. In 100 games (TC: 4 Minutes + 2 Seconds) against Ethereal 13.75 there were 16 time losses.

Strange, What version of the Banksia GUI do you have?
I have a time margin setting in Banksia.
News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? - Page 8 Time_m10



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Admin
Admin
Admin


Posts : 2536
Join date : 2020-11-17
Location : Netherlands

News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ?   News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? - Page 8 EmptyThu Jan 05, 2023 11:07 am

It says "Margin per move", never heard of that. But I never tried Banksia.
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http://rebel13.nl/
Wolfgang




Posts : 6
Join date : 2022-05-10

News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ?   News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? - Page 8 EmptyThu Jan 05, 2023 4:55 pm

mwyoung wrote:
Dio wrote:
there were first tests by CEGT. The GUI used was the Banksia GUI. This GUI has no timemargin setting. In 100 games (TC: 4 Minutes + 2 Seconds) against Ethereal 13.75 there were 16 time losses.
Strange, What version of the Banksia GUI do you have?
I have a time margin setting in Banksia.

Dio made this post before I sent the following picture to him

News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? - Page 8 L5d4srd2

The problem was (and still is):
Margin 0,0 (default): 16 time losses in a match of 100 games
Margin 1,0 (1000ms): 18 (!!) time losses ~~~~~
Margin 2,0 (2000ms): NO time losses~~~~~

Time control was 4'+2"

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Ipmanchess




Posts : 42
Join date : 2022-06-08

News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ?   News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? - Page 8 EmptyThu Jan 12, 2023 10:18 am

Admin, matejst and Dio like this post

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Admin
Admin
Admin


Posts : 2536
Join date : 2020-11-17
Location : Netherlands

News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ?   News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? - Page 8 EmptyThu Jan 12, 2023 11:07 am

Thanks Ipman.
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http://rebel13.nl/
Peter Berger




Posts : 123
Join date : 2020-11-20

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PostSubject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ?   News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? - Page 8 EmptySun Jan 15, 2023 2:49 pm

Welcome Rebel 16.1
I played a game with the latest Rebel against Crafty.
I’d like to report one bug and one critical question.
1. Bug report
In the Fritz 17 GUI the engine doesn’t report its evaluation anymore but rather „ : :“ .  As other engines still work as usual this is clearly due to whatever Rebel 16.1 does differently than other engines.

2. Time management
I wonder whether anyone has checked the engine with really long time controls. In the following game Rebel uses half of its time by move 10 and 75% of its time by move 20. This can’t be optimal IMHO.
3. The game itself
The game itself was pretty nice and interesting, so no complaints about the play itself, to the contrary.
Peter
[Event "Lang 120min+10sek"]
[Site "Berlin"]
[Date "2023.01.14"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Rebel-16.1"]
[Black "Crafty 25.6"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B81"]
[PlyCount "151"]
[TimeControl "7200+10"]

{4096MB, LAPTOP-NCDN8BTK} 1. e4 {[%emt 0:04:10]} c5 {[%emt 0:00:08]} 2. Nf3 {
[%emt 0:01:54]} d6 {[%emt 0:00:07] (e6)} 3. d4 {[%emt 0:11:57]} cxd4 {[%emt 0:
00:11]} 4. Nxd4 {[%emt 0:01:15]} Nf6 {[%emt 0:00:06]} 5. Nc3 {[%emt 0:08:09]}
a6 {[%emt 0:00:13]} 6. h3 {[%emt 0:11:27]} e6 {[%emt 0:00:08] (h6)} 7. g4 {
[%emt 0:01:07]} Be7 {[%emt 0:00:07] (d5)} 8. g5 {[%emt 0:06:42]} Nfd7 {[%emt 0:
00:06]} 9. a3 {[%emt 0:02:43]} b5 {[%emt 0:06:56]} 10. Be3 {[%emt 0:11:42]} Bb7
{[%emt 0:00:08]} 11. f4 {[%emt 0:02:29]} Nc6 {[%emt 0:02:55] (0-0)} 12. h4 {
[%emt 0:03:14]} O-O {[%emt 0:03:14]} 13. Nxc6 {[%emt 0:03:24]} Bxc6 {[%emt 0:
02:48]} 14. h5 {[%emt 0:01:05]} e5 {[%emt 0:03:23] (Te8)} 15. h6 {[%emt 0:03:
10]} g6 {[%emt 0:02:34]} 16. Qd2 {[%emt 0:01:14]} Nc5 {[%emt 0:01:09]} 17.
O-O-O {[%emt 0:01:30]} Nxe4 {[%emt 0:02:45]} 18. Nxe4 {[%emt 0:07:43]} Bxe4 {
[%emt 0:02:33]} 19. Bg2 {[%emt 0:01:04]} Bxg2 {[%emt 0:02:14]} 20. Qxg2 {
[%emt 0:01:14]} Qc8 {[%emt 0:04:02] (Dc7)} 21. Rd5 {[%emt 0:01:43]} Qf5 {
[%emt 0:02:19] (Te8)} 22. Rf1 {[%emt 0:00:41]} Rac8 {[%emt 0:02:18]} 23. Kb1 {
[%emt 0:03:07]} Qe6 {[%emt 0:00:09]} 24. fxe5 {[%emt 0:00:59]} dxe5 {[%emt 0:
00:54]} 25. Rfd1 {[%emt 0:05:19]} Rcd8 {[%emt 0:05:52] (Tfe8)} 26. Rxd8 {
[%emt 0:01:32]} Bxd8 {[%emt 0:00:55]} 27. Rd3 {[%emt 0:02:51]} Be7 {[%emt 0:00:
43] (e4)} 28. Qb7 {[%emt 0:00:36]} Re8 {[%emt 0:01:03] (Ld8)} 29. Rd7 {[%emt 0:
00:35]} Bf8 {[%emt 0:02:47] (b4)} 30. b4 {[%emt 0:01:26]} e4 {[%emt 0:00:08]}
31. Qc7 {[%emt 0:00:51]} Ra8 {[%emt 0:00:50] (Te7)} 32. Rd4 {[%emt 0:01:13]}
Qh3 {[%emt 0:01:40]} 33. Qc3 {[%emt 0:01:54]} Rc8 {[%emt 0:01:42]} 34. Qd2 {
[%emt 0:01:30]} Qf3 {[%emt 0:00:11] (De6)} 35. Rd5 {[%emt 0:00:15]} a5 {
[%emt 0:02:41]} 36. bxa5 {[%emt 0:00:16]} Qf1+ {[%emt 0:01:15]} 37. Qd1 {
[%emt 0:00:26]} Qc4 {[%emt 0:00:56]} 38. a6 {[%emt 0:00:47]} b4 {[%emt 0:02:20]
} 39. a4 {[%emt 0:00:32]} Qxa6 {[%emt 0:02:15]} 40. Rd8 {[%emt 0:01:45]} Rxd8 {
[%emt 0:00:09]} 41. Qxd8 {[%emt 0:00:40]} Qc4 {[%emt 0:00:33]} 42. Qd4 {
[%emt 0:00:15]} Qxd4 {[%emt 0:00:55]} 43. Bxd4 {[%emt 0:00:28]} f5 {[%emt 0:02:
20]} 44. a5 {[%emt 0:02:24]} Bd6 {[%emt 0:00:08]} 45. a6 {[%emt 0:00:13]} Bb8 {
[%emt 0:01:24]} 46. a7 {[%emt 0:00:24]} Bxa7 {[%emt 0:01:11]} 47. Bxa7 {
[%emt 0:00:17]} Kf7 {[%emt 0:01:22]} 48. Bc5 {[%emt 0:01:00]} f4 {[%emt 0:00:
29] (Ke6)} 49. Bxb4 {[%emt 0:00:14]} e3 {[%emt 0:06:22]} 50. Kc1 {[%emt 0:00:
27]} Ke6 {[%emt 0:00:51]} 51. Kd1 {[%emt 0:00:14]} Kf5 {[%emt 0:00:56]} 52. Be7
{[%emt 0:00:26]} Ke4 {[%emt 0:01:47]} 53. Ke1 {[%emt 0:01:38]} Kf3 {[%emt 0:00:
50]} 54. Kf1 {[%emt 0:00:20]} Ke4 {[%emt 0:01:23]} 55. Ba3 {[%emt 0:00:30]} Kd4
{[%emt 0:00:25] (f3)} 56. Ke2 {[%emt 0:00:08]} Ke4 {[%emt 0:00:50]} 57. Bc5 {
[%emt 0:00:08]} Kf5 {[%emt 0:00:37] (f3+)} 58. c4 {[%emt 0:00:11]} Kxg5 {
[%emt 0:00:25]} 59. Bd6 {[%emt 0:00:16]} Kf5 {[%emt 0:00:21]} 60. c5 {[%emt 0:
00:20]} g5 {[%emt 0:00:14] (Ke4)} 61. c6 {[%emt 0:00:12]} Ke6 {[%emt 0:04:44]}
62. Bf8 {[%emt 0:00:07]} g4 {[%emt 0:01:30]} 63. Bb4 {[%emt 0:00:16]} g3 {
[%emt 0:00:38]} 64. Kf3 {[%emt 0:00:13]} e2 {[%emt 0:00:10]} 65. Kxe2 {[%emt 0:
00:36]} Kd5 {[%emt 0:00:10]} 66. c7 {[%emt 0:00:24]} Ke4 {[%emt 0:00:09]} 67.
c8=Q {[%emt 0:00:30]} f3+ {[%emt 0:00:12]} 68. Kd2 {[%emt 0:00:06]} g2 {
[%emt 0:00:19] (f2)} 69. Qe6+ {[%emt 0:00:06]} Kd4 {[%emt 0:00:18]} 70. Qf5 {
[%emt 0:00:06]} f2 {[%emt 0:00:35] (g1D)} 71. Bc5+ {[%emt 0:00:07]} Kc4 {
[%emt 0:00:20]} 72. Bxf2 {[%emt 0:00:06]} g1=Q {[%emt 0:00:24]} 73. Bxg1 {
[%emt 0:00:00]} Kb4 {[%emt 0:00:14] (Kb3)} 74. Kc2 {[%emt 0:00:01]} Ka4 {
[%emt 0:00:11]} 75. Kc3 {[%emt 0:00:01]} Ka3 {[%emt 0:00:10]} 76. Qa5# {
[%emt 0:00:01]} 1-0
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Mclane

Mclane


Posts : 2948
Join date : 2020-11-17
Age : 57
Location : United States of Europe, Germany, Ruhr area

News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ?   News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? - Page 8 EmptySun Jan 22, 2023 3:11 pm

    Motor                                    Punkte      Dr   Dr   Be   St   St   Dr   Re   Ka   Lc   Dr   Et   Re   Ru   Re   Lc   Ur   Re   Wa   De   Ko   Re   Ko   Wa   Bo   Ch   Lc   Bo   Eq   De   De   Ro   CS   Ro   In   Co   Na   De   CT    S-B
01: Dragon-3.1-64bit-avx2 [t4]               114,5/148 ···· =1=1 ===0 ===1 ==11 ==0= ==== ==== 1=11 1==0 =1=1 =10= ===1 1111 101= 1101 ==== 1=10 ==11 1==1 1111 11== 11=1 1=== 1111 1111 =11= =111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1101 1111 1111 1=11 1111 1111  7672,2
02: Dragon-2.5-64bit-avx2 [t4, mcts]         113,5/148 =0=0 ···· 0=== ===1 ==1= 11== ==== =11= 01=1 ==0= 1==0 ==== 1=== =111 1==1 1=11 ==1= 1111 101= 111= ==== 1==1 111= 10=1 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 0111 11=1 111= 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111  7510,5
03: Berserk-9-x64-avx2-pext [t4]             111,0/148 ===1 1=== ···· 0001 =000 =1=0 0=== ===1 1101 ==== 110= 1==0 =11= ==1= ==== =1== 1=11 1111 =111 11== 11=1 10== 1011 1111 =111 1111 111= 0111 11=1 =111 1111 1111 1111 =111 1111 1111 1111 1111  7282,7
04: Stockfish_15_x64_avx2 [t4]               109,5/148 ===0 ===0 1110 ···· =1== =1== ==01 ==1= 00=1 11== =111 ==== =1=1 0=1= ==01 =0=1 =1=1 ===1 ===0 1111 1==1 =111 =110 1=11 1110 0111 11=1 1111 1111 1111 0111 1101 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111  7228,0
05: Stockfish15.1-avx2 [t4]                  108,5/148 ==00 ==0= =111 =0== ···· 11== 1=== 00=0 101= 0==0 ==01 =011 =1=0 =11= =1=1 ==1= 1=01 1110 1111 101= 1011 1100 1110 1101 1101 110= 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111  7004,0
06: Dragon-3.1-64bit-avx2 [t4, mcts]         108,5/148 ==1= 00== =0=1 =0== 00== ···· ===0 ==1= =100 ==== ==10 1=== ==== 1==1 ==== 10=1 1==1 1111 =011 ===1 111= 11== 1=11 11=1 11=1 1111 1111 =111 1==1 1111 =111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111  6968,0
07: Rebel 16 [t4, rebel.bin]                 108,0/148 ==== ==== 1=== ==10 0=== ===1 ···· ==1= ==== ===0 ==1= 1=== ==1= ==== ==== 111= ==== 1==1 1=11 ==== 1=10 ==== 1=1= =1=1 1111 1111 1111 1=11 1=11 =11= 1111 1111 11=1 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111  7051,0
08: Kayra 1.5 Attack-avx2 [t4]               106,0/148 ==== =00= ===0 ==0= 11=1 ==0= ==0= ···· =1== =1== ==== ==== =1== 00== 110= 11== 111= =011 ==== 11== =101 111= 1111 1=11 1111 1111 1101 1111 1110 1110 1111 1101 0111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111  6897,5
09: Lc0 0.29.0 rc1 radeon gpu dx12 [753723]  102,5/148 0=00 10=0 0010 11=0 010= =011 ==== =0== ···· 0=1= 0101 ==0= 111= ==== ==== =0=1 1111 =11= ==11 110= 1111 111= ==== 10=1 1=11 1=11 ===1 =111 1=1= 1=11 =111 1111 1101 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111  6584,2
10: Dragon-2.5-64bit-avx2 [t4]               102,0/148 0==1 ==1= ==== 00== 1==1 ==== ===1 =0== 1=0= ···· ==== 0=1= 0=11 ==== ==1= 1=1= 11=1 1=10 =1=0 1=11 1110 ===0 1110 11=1 0100 =1=0 1110 0111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1110 1111 1111 1111 1111 1101  6741,7
11: Ethereal-13.75-pext-avx2 [t4]            102,0/148 =0=0 0==1 001= =000 ==10 ==01 ==0= ==== 1010 ==== ···· ==== 0=0= =1== =11= 01=1 ==== 10== ==== 11=1 =10= 1=1= 111= 111= 1111 11=0 11== 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 =111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111  6388,5
12: Rebel-16a [t4]                           101,5/148 =01= ==== 0==1 ==== =100 0=== 0=== ==== ==1= 1=0= ==== ···· =1== ==== ===0 ===1 ==== 11=1 ==11 1=1= 0==0 ==== ===1 =1=1 1=11 1=1= =1=1 1111 1111 1111 1==1 11=1 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111  6481,2
13: RubiChess20220813_64-avx2 [t4, nnue]     96,5/148  ===0 0=== =00= =0=0 =0=1 ==== ==0= =0== 000= 1=00 1=1= =0== ···· 1=== =111 ===1 ==== =0=1 ==1= 010= =111 =11= =101 =1== ===1 11=1 11=1 1111 1111 01=1 =111 1111 1111 0111 =111 1111 1111 1111  6067,5
14: Rebel-15.1a-avx2 [t4, rebel.bin]         94,5/148  0000 =000 ==0= 1=0= =00= 0==0 ==== 11== ==== ==== =0== ==== 0=== ···· ==== =0== ==10 1=11 ===0 =1=0 1=01 1101 =110 1110 0=11 0111 1=11 1111 1111 1111 1011 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1110 1111  5804,2
15: Lc0 0.28.2 radeon gpu dx12 [752187]      94,0/148  010= 0==0 ==== ==10 =0=0 ==== ==== 001= ==== ==0= =00= ===1 =000 ==== ···· ==1= ==== 11=0 ==== =0== =011 =1== 1=== 1=== 111= =011 =111 =1=1 1111 1110 1=11 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111  5789,0
16: Uralochka3.38c-avx2 [t4]                 90,5/148  0010 0=00 =0== =1=0 ==0= 01=0 000= 00== =1=0 0=0= 10=0 ===0 ===0 =1== ==0= ···· ==00 =1== 1=== =011 1100 ===1 =1== =1== ==11 1111 1111 1=1= 1=1= 1111 =1=1 1111 1111 1111 11=1 1111 1111 1111  5419,2
17: Rebel-15.1-avx2 [t4]                     89,5/148  ==== ==0= 0=00 =0=0 0=10 0==0 ==== 000= 0000 00=0 ==== ==== ==== ==01 ==== ==11 ···· 10=1 =0=1 =11= ==11 =10= 11=1 ===1 ==1= 0001 11== 1111 ==11 =111 11=1 =111 1111 11=1 1111 1111 1111 1111  5423,7
18: Wasp600-win-avx [t4]                     87,5/148  0=01 0000 0000 ===0 0001 0000 0==0 =100 =00= 0=01 01== 00=0 =1=0 0=00 00=1 =0== 01=0 ···· =0=0 ==== 1==1 11=1 1=11 ==== 111= 1111 ==11 11=1 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111  4924,7
19: DeepHiarcs15.0 [t4]                      84,5/148  ==00 010= =000 ===1 0000 =100 0=00 ==== ==00 =0=1 ==== ==00 ==0= ===1 ==== 0=== =1=0 =1=1 ···· 011= 1101 ===1 ===1 ===1 =1=0 0=== ===1 111= ==== =111 ===1 =1=1 1=11 1111 1111 1111 111= 1111  5178,5
20: Komodo-14.1-64bit [t4, mcts]             84,5/148  0==0 000= 00== 0000 010= ===0 ==== 00== 001= 0=00 00=0 0=0= 101= =0=1 =1== =100 =00= ==== 100= ···· 1=11 =11= =111 11== 11== =0=0 =111 1==1 11== 0111 1=11 101= 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111  4964,5
21: Rebel-16.1 [t4]                          76,5/148  0000 ==== 00=0 0==0 0100 000= 0=01 =010 0000 0001 =01= 1==1 =000 0=10 =100 0011 ==00 0==0 0010 0=00 ···· =101 1=1= 1=10 11=1 0011 1110 1100 1=10 0111 1101 0=11 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111  4376,2
22: Komodo-14.1-64bit [t4]                   75,0/148  00== 0==0 01== =000 0011 00== ==== 000= 000= ===1 0=0= ==== =00= 0010 =0== ===0 =01= 00=0 ===0 =00= =010 ···· 1001 =0== 1001 1111 101= 10=0 1110 1101 1111 0111 1111 1101 1111 1111 1111 1010  4490,5
23: Wasp550-windows-avx [t4]                 74,5/148  00=0 000= 0100 =001 0001 0=00 0=0= 0000 ==== 0001 000= ===0 =010 =001 0=== =0== 00=0 0=00 ===0 =000 0=0= 0110 ···· =1=1 =101 011= 1==1 1111 11== 111= 1110 111= 11=1 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111  4059,0
24: Booot7 [t4]                              74,0/148  0=== 01=0 0000 0=00 0010 00=0 =0=0 0=00 01=0 00=0 000= =0=0 =0== 0001 0=== =0== ===0 ==== ===0 00== 0=01 =1== =0=0 ···· 1=00 0011 1=11 1=11 ===1 =111 111= 1111 1111 1111 1=11 1111 1111 1111  4046,0
25: Chiron-5-64bit [t4]                      63,0/148  0000 0000 =000 0001 0010 00=0 0000 0000 0=00 1011 0000 0=00 ===0 1=00 000= ==00 ==0= 000= =0=1 00== 00=0 0110 =010 0=11 ···· =010 ==1= =01= 1==0 1==1 =11= ==1= 1111 1=11 1111 1111 1111 1111  3241,2
26: Lc0 0.29.0 rc1 radeon gpu dx12 [j94-130] 61,5/148  0000 0000 0000 1000 001= 0000 0000 0000 0=00 =0=1 00=1 0=0= 00=0 1000 =100 0000 1110 0000 1=== =1=1 1100 0000 100= 1100 =101 ···· 0=01 1101 0=10 =110 0110 1101 1110 0111 1111 1111 1011 1111  3316,7
27: Booot6 [t4]                              58,0/148  =00= 0000 000= 00=0 0000 0000 0000 0010 ===0 0001 00== =0=0 00=0 0=00 =000 0000 00== ==00 ===0 =000 0001 010= 0==0 0=00 ==0= 1=10 ···· 011= =1=1 =1=1 01== 1111 11== 1111 1111 1111 1111 =111  2821,7
28: Equinox 3.30-x64 [t4]                    50,0/148  =000 0000 1000 0000 0000 =000 0=00 0000 =000 1000 0000 0000 0000 0000 =0=0 0=0= 0000 00=0 000= 0==0 0011 01=1 0000 0=00 =10= 0010 100= ···· 01=0 10== ==11 1=1= 0111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111  2199,0
29: DeepShredder13UCIx64 [t4, buffer6]       46,5/148  0000 0000 00=0 0000 0000 0==0 0=00 0001 0=0= 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0=0= ==00 0000 ==== 00== 0=01 0001 00== ===0 0==1 1=01 =0=0 10=1 ···· =0=0 =011 1==1 1010 1110 1101 1011 1101 1111  2238,7
30: Deep Rybka 4.1 x64 [t4]                  45,5/148  0000 0000 =000 0000 0000 0000 =00= 0001 0=00 0000 0000 0000 10=0 0000 0001 0000 =000 0000 =000 1000 1000 0010 000= =000 0==0 =001 =0=0 01== =1=1 ···· =111 =001 1111 1=11 0111 1111 1111 1101  1964,5
31: Rodent-iv-x64 [t4]                       44,5/148  0000 1000 0000 1000 0000 =000 0000 0000 =000 0000 0000 0==0 =000 0100 0=00 =0=0 00=0 0000 ===0 0=00 0010 0000 0001 000= =00= 1001 10== ==00 =100 =000 ···· 0=10 =111 1111 1111 1111 =111 1111  1971,2
32: CSTal3 5'                                41,0/148  0000 00=0 0000 0010 0000 0000 0000 0010 0000 0000 0000 00=0 0000 0000 0000 0000 =000 0000 =0=0 010= 1=00 1000 000= 0000 ==0= 0010 0000 0=0= 0==0 =110 1=01 ···· 1111 1111 0111 1111 =111 1111  1634,7
33: Rodent-iv-x64 [t4, tal]                  27,0/148  0010 000= 0000 0000 0000 0000 00=0 1000 0010 0001 =000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0=00 0000 0000 0000 00=0 0000 0000 0001 00== 1000 0101 0000 =000 0000 ···· =001 1011 1111 1=10 1111  1135,0
34: Inanis 1.1.1 win64 [t4]                  19,5/148  0000 0000 =000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 1000 0000 0000 0000 00=0 0000 0000 0000 0000 0010 0000 0000 0=00 1000 0000 0000 0001 0=00 0000 0000 =110 ···· =10= 10=0 =111 1111  622,50
35: Colossus2022a [t4]                       15,5/148  0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 =000 0000 0000 00=0 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0=00 0000 0000 0000 0000 0010 1000 0000 1000 0100 =01= ···· 10== 1111 1100  412,50
36: Nawito-22.07-winx64                      11,5/148  0=00 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0100 0000 0000 0000 0000 01=1 01== ···· ==10 =111  236,00
37: Delfi                                    10,5/148  0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0001 0000 0000 0000 0000 000= 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0100 0000 0000 0010 0000 =000 =000 0=01 =000 0000 ==01 ···· 1010  378,75
38: CT800_V1.44_x64                          9,0/148   0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0010 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0101 0000 0000 0000 0000 =000 0000 0000 0010 0000 0000 0000 0000 0011 =000 0101 ····  384,25

2812 Partien gespielt / Turnier beendet
Name des Turniers: Ryzen7 5700
Ort/ Land: LAPTOP-JTQQP8M7, Deutschland
Spielstufe: Turnier 40/4
Hardware: AMD Ryzen 7 5700U with Radeon Graphics  mit 4.096 MB Speicher

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PostSubject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ?   News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? - Page 8 EmptySun Jan 22, 2023 4:33 pm

Very nice Thorsten.
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PostSubject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ?   News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? - Page 8 EmptySun Jan 22, 2023 5:41 pm

Admin wrote:
Very nice Thorsten.

Only 4 losses, that’s pretty good
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PostSubject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ?   News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? - Page 8 EmptySun Jan 22, 2023 5:55 pm

Guys, 16.1 is the latest version. Rank 21 with lots of losses ….
The best version you refer was rebel16 with noomen book and NO
permanent brain while all other programs HAD permanent brain.

So normally one would expect that a later version with permanent brain should score above rebel16 without pb.

IMO the time control needs a bug fix.

The tiny machine has 8 cores and each Engine gets 4.
So IMO 40 moves in 4 minutes should be possible if you get 4 cores.



Last edited by Mclane on Sun Jan 22, 2023 6:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ?   News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? - Page 8 EmptySun Jan 22, 2023 6:01 pm

crazy how old Rebel 16 got sf14 level performance

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PostSubject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ?   News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? - Page 8 EmptySun Jan 22, 2023 6:05 pm

texium wrote:
crazy how old Rebel 16 got sf14 level performance

I am litte disapointed by Stockfish 15. its not leading on none of my pcs.

Ok in opposite to dragon or lc0 (costs graphics cards money) that cost money, Stockfish costs nothing.
But i do not really see a progress with Stockfish on my machines.

My machines are:
Amd 16 coreNews about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? - Page 8 500b9210

Amd 8 core
and 2x amd 6 core.

The hardware used is the small asus 8 core machine in front of my dedicated chess computers.
It runs with solar energy from the balcony. So the tournament is 100% CO2 neutral.
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PostSubject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ?   News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? - Page 8 EmptySun Jan 22, 2023 6:46 pm

your stuff is definitely being weird. SF should perform around the same as drag 3.1. and Drag MCTS 2.5 should be much lower. the issue is probably from having perm brain on all, ccrl doesn't use ponder for it's regular testing in blitz so I don't think sf performs bad there. but still, I've run sf on 1T and 4mb hash vs dragon with 2048 and 3 threads and they tend to perform similar
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PostSubject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ?   News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? - Page 8 EmptySun Jan 22, 2023 7:23 pm

texium wrote:
your stuff is definitely being weird. SF should perform around the same as drag 3.1. and Drag MCTS 2.5 should be much lower. the issue is probably from having perm brain on all, ccrl doesn't use ponder for it's regular testing in blitz so I don't think sf performs bad there. but still, I've run sf on 1T and 4mb hash vs dragon with 2048 and 3 threads and they tend to perform similar

What we normally are used to see are the results of engines that are about the same elo pool.

This tournament is different, many weak or weaker engines. It can easily be the case Dragon is the better killer of weaker engines.
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PostSubject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ?   News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? - Page 8 EmptyMon Jan 23, 2023 3:54 am

Admin wrote:
texium wrote:
your stuff is definitely being weird. SF should perform around the same as drag 3.1. and Drag MCTS 2.5 should be much lower. the issue is probably from having perm brain on all, ccrl doesn't use ponder for it's regular testing in blitz so I don't think sf performs bad there. but still, I've run sf on 1T and 4mb hash vs dragon with 2048 and 3 threads and they tend to perform similar

What we normally are used to see are the results of engines that are about the same elo pool.

This tournament is different, many weak or weaker engines. It can easily be the case Dragon is the better killer of weaker engines.
right I forgot about that
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PostSubject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ?   News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? - Page 8 EmptyTue Jan 24, 2023 8:08 am

In any normal competition, as in real life, you have not a selected elo pool.
You have a big variety in elo and differences.
No matter if you talk about soccer league or any other competition.

The best have to play against newcomers and weaker teams.
And often a noname can kill a top team.

If you only relate or match same elo pool you get an incest situation that shows an increase of elo that is de facto not true.

Take e.g. computer chess championship 1986 cologne where ed schroeders rebel engine had to play mainframes and was successfully doing it.

Following your elo pool logic machines like the dedicated machines should not compete mainframes because you expect them to be to weak.

But how do you measure how the big ones score against weaker engines if you do not run games ?!

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PostSubject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ?   News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? - Page 8 EmptyWed Feb 01, 2023 7:40 am

UPDATE

We are still alive in case you start to wonder Very Happy

REBEL -
1. We are fixing the last bugs.
2. We added polyglot book support.
3. We added a playing style option.
4. All testing is done with a time margin of 500ms per game. It's quite possible our engines can do without.
5. There will be no playing strength update.

CSTAL -
1. Of course all of the above 4 points.
2. We are building a total new and stronger net for CSTAL

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PostSubject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ?   News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? - Page 8 EmptyThu Feb 23, 2023 1:45 am

Chess System Tal update

TC=20+0.05 UHO openings

[pgn]
[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2023.02.22"]
[Round "126"]
[White "Stockfish_13"]
[Black "Chess-System-Tal-1.59"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "A40"]
[Opening "Queen's pawn"]
[TimeControl "20+0.05"]
[Termination "adjudication"]
[PlyCount "55"]
[GameDuration "00:00:18"]
[GameEndTime "2023-02-22T20:17:41.373 W. Europe Standard Time"]
[GameStartTime "2023-02-22T20:17:22.467 W. Europe Standard Time"]

1. d4 { book } 1... e6 { book } 2. Bf4 { book } 2... b6 { book } 3. e3 {
book } 3... Bb7 { book } 4. Nf3 { book } 4... d6 { book } 5. h3 { book }
5... Nd7 { book } 6. Bh2 { book } 6... f5 { book } 7. c4 { book } 7... g6 {
book } 8. Nc3 { book } 8... Bg7 { book } 9. a4 { +0.91/22 2.3s } 9... Ngf6
{ -1.41/13 0.75s } 10. Ng5 { +1.01/16 0.23s } 10... Qe7 { -2.25/15 0.52s }
11. Nb5 { +1.36/17 0.35s } 11... O-O { -1.92/16 0.81s } 12. Nxc7 { +1.31/17
0.46s } 12... f4 { -1.69/16 0.70s } 13. Nxa8 { +1.86/17 0.23s } 13... fxe3
{ -1.30/15 0.64s } 14. fxe3 { +2.11/17 0.30s } 14... e5 { -1.89/16 0.70s }
15. Nc7 { +3.93/17 0.25s } 15... exd4 { -1.68/15 0.69s } 16. Nge6 {
+4.15/16 0.23s } 16... Ne4 { +1.34/14 0.41s } 17. Nxf8 { +4.40/17 0.27s }
17... Qh4+ { +0.25/14 0.52s } 18. g3 { +6.62/17 0.30s } 18... Qf6 {
+2.08/15 0.34s } 19. Qe2 { +6.90/18 0.26s } 19... Ndc5 { +3.52/14 0.45s }
20. O-O-O { +3.25/24 1.7s } 20... d3 { +12.61/16 0.75s } 21. Nd7 { +3.25/21
0.31s } 21... Nb3+ { +M19/33 0.30s } 22. Kb1 { -M18/20 0.69s } 22... Nc3+ {
+M17/38 0.43s } 23. bxc3 { -M16/32 0.24s } 23... Qxc3 { +M15/42 0.33s } 24.
Nf6+ { -M14/34 0.26s } 24... Bxf6 { +M13/40 0.28s } 25. Qa2 { -M12/38 0.26s
} 25... d2 { +M11/41 0.36s } 26. Bd3 { -M10/43 0.23s } 26... Bxh1 { +M9/44
0.30s } 27. Bc2 { -M8/65 0.23s } 27... Be4 { +M7/54 0.28s } 28. Rxd2 {
-M6/245 0.17s, Black wins by adjudication } 0-1
[/pgn]

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PostSubject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ?   News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? - Page 8 EmptyThu Feb 23, 2023 1:53 am

SF13 having no clue.
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PostSubject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ?   News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? - Page 8 EmptyThu Feb 23, 2023 1:57 pm

But very very fast time control.
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