Posts : 1254 Join date : 2020-11-17 Location : France
Subject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? Tue Nov 29, 2022 6:40 pm
Dio wrote:
Are there any news regarding the current development of Rebel and Chess System Tal ?
Any "speculations" whether Niemann has cheated or not have not much to do with computer chess in my opinion.
I would be especially happy to test the new chess engine from Chris. I hope that this will be the case sometime.
Chess System Tal is pretty much ready to go, we decided to release Rebel 16 first and are just finalising that now.
CSTal is planned for release to rating list testers about a fortnight on from Rebel16 and to users about a week later.
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Ipmanchess
Posts : 41 Join date : 2022-06-08
Subject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? Tue Nov 29, 2022 6:46 pm
One system is just ready with RubiChess 20221120 ,so i could start with Rebel 16 now
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Ipmanchess
Posts : 41 Join date : 2022-06-08
Subject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? Tue Nov 29, 2022 7:17 pm
A other easy way is using Discord.. you have a direct talk with each other ,you can drop files ,screens ,links in private ..all the authors from Openbench use Discord and i have direct contact with them.. so easy.. any problem i can directly show or tell my findings about testing their engines..
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Werner
Posts : 28 Join date : 2022-11-29
Subject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? Tue Nov 29, 2022 7:20 pm
Chris Whittington wrote:
Chess System Tal is pretty much ready to go, we decided to release Rebel 16 first and are just finalising that now.
CSTal is planned for release to rating list testers about a fortnight on from Rebel16 and to users about a week later.
Hi Chris, nice to hear such good news from CSTAL. Perhaps you remember: I started with Chess Champion many years ago. I have CSTal too, but cannot run it on newer PCs. So I am very intersted in your new version. Best wishes Werner
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Admin Admin
Posts : 2528 Join date : 2020-11-17 Location : Netherlands
Subject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:30 am
It's there, the best of 2 worlds, brought to you by 2 oldies of respectable age.
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Ipmanchess
Posts : 41 Join date : 2022-06-08
Subject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:36 am
info string Rebel 16 info string (C) Ed Schroder and Chris Whittington 2022 info string Code Base : Chris Whittington info string Evaluation : Ed Schroder uci id name Rebel 16 id author Ed Schroder and Chris Whittington (C) 2003-2022 option name Hash type spin default 128 min 16 max 131072 option name Threads type spin default 1 min 1 max 64 uciok
Up & running
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gerhard
Posts : 22 Join date : 2022-08-18
Subject: Rebel 16 in Tournament Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:58 pm
Only some ready to use .abk- books, Rebel.bin only in Polyglot format. The 4000- games- .pgn- download aside of the bundle- download is about match- results only, isn't it?
gerhard
Posts : 22 Join date : 2022-08-18
Subject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? Wed Nov 30, 2022 3:37 pm
peter wrote:
gerhard wrote:
peter wrote:
Admin wrote:
It's there, the best of 2 worlds, brought to you by 2 oldies of respectable age.
Only some ready to use .abk- books, Rebel.bin only in Polyglot format. The 4000- games- .pgn- download aside of the bundle- download is about match- results only, isn't it?
Peter
i just remember a better way !
please check this - it was already discussed - openbook is a very great tool
Only some ready to use .abk- books, Rebel.bin only in Polyglot format. The 4000- games- .pgn- download aside of the bundle- download is about match- results only, isn't it?
i just remember a better way !
please check this - it was already discussed - openbook is a very great tool
Ok, Gerhard, I'll give it a try. Just thought if Rebel15 was able to use .bin- books, version 16 could be able to do so too, transforming Polyglot to .pgn or using GUIs like Scid with direct .bin- book-reading were other workarounds of course, nevermind and thanks again, regards
Chris Whittington
Posts : 1254 Join date : 2020-11-17 Location : France
Subject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:54 pm
Dio wrote:
I only looked at the SF list (not the LCZero one) and the test seems to give a remarkable correlation with Elo
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Dio
Posts : 214 Join date : 2021-08-28
Subject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:10 pm
in the meantime I have tested other engines that belong to the top 10. Especially when a program is completely new or a new version is available, this tool provides very good initial insights into the expected playing strength.
in the past I have used this tool intensively (NICE 2 >84000 positions), to identify the best Lc0 capable nets (Albert Silver, Dietrich Kappe, Mark Jordan). This was done without searching, i.e. only the policy-head was checked.
This worked very well, the final nets of Leelenstein 15.0 and Fat Fritz 1.0 were created based on these tests.
Possibly this test is also suitable to test the quality of a NNUE (with however substantially more positions).
Update:
Last edited by Dio on Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
Dio
Posts : 214 Join date : 2021-08-28
Subject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:34 pm
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Mclane
Posts : 2921 Join date : 2020-11-17 Age : 57 Location : United States of Europe, Germany, Ruhr area
Subject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:14 pm
I just installed rebel16 on my machine. Wow it is amazingly FAST ! Its a beast!
Posts : 2528 Join date : 2020-11-17 Location : Netherlands
Subject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:43 pm
Dio wrote:
in the meantime I have tested other engines that belong to the top 10. Especially when a program is completely new or a new version is available, this tool provides very good initial insights into the expected playing strength.
in the past I have used this tool intensively (NICE 2 >84000 positions), to identify the best Lc0 capable nets (Albert Silver, Dietrich Kappe, Mark Jordan). This was done without searching, i.e. only the policy-head was checked.
This worked very well, the final nets of Leelenstein 15.0 and Fat Fritz 1.0 were created based on these tests.
Possibly this test is also suitable to test the quality of a NNUE (with however substantially more positions).
Update:
And, the more positions, the more reliable. Take the CEGT 40/20 4-cpu games or 40/15 4-cpu games from CCRL and the moves of SF15 get 10 points, from Komodo 9 points etc. Skip simple recaptures and moves all engines agree on and you have a few hundred thousand positions quite quickly. 100,000 positions stand for about 1000 games.
And with NICE you can split the job into multiple threads.
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Mclane
Posts : 2921 Join date : 2020-11-17 Age : 57 Location : United States of Europe, Germany, Ruhr area
Subject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:57 pm
Btw: can it be that permanent brain is by default OFF. And because i see no parameter to switch it on, how is this done ??
The only parameter i see is threads.
Can you make a version where the user can switch PB on/off ??
I do mainly test with permanent brain ON.
Shall i use rebel.bin from version15 too ? Or shall i wait until jeroen adapts a book for version 16 ?!
Admin Admin
Posts : 2528 Join date : 2020-11-17 Location : Netherlands
Subject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:09 pm
Oh well, forgot to tell, PB still under construction.
Yes, use the Noomen book, no update needed.
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Admin Admin
Posts : 2528 Join date : 2020-11-17 Location : Netherlands
Subject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:44 pm
Subject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:09 pm
Admin wrote:
Oh well, forgot to tell, PB still under construction.
Yes, use the Noomen book, no update needed.
Or don't .
Welcome Rebel16 on my computers.
My knowledge in this line is heavily outdated (like 19XX) , so for me 12. h3 is kind of a novelty. I didn't look things up, so who knows .
It is one game, but though Crafty loses some, even Stockfish rarely delivers such strong blows against it - impressive.
But what I want to give an applause for, is the release style-wise. We get an executable, we get one parameter, we can adjust threads. THAT's the spirit - just as in the old days where programmers were expected to work out optimal settings for themselves
Posts : 1254 Join date : 2020-11-17 Location : France
Subject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:35 pm
Peter Berger wrote:
Admin wrote:
Oh well, forgot to tell, PB still under construction.
Yes, use the Noomen book, no update needed.
Or don't .
Welcome Rebel16 on my computers.
My knowledge in this line is heavily outdated (like 19XX) , so for me 12. h3 is kind of a novelty. I didn't look things up, so who knows .
It is one game, but though Crafty loses some, even Stockfish rarely delivers such strong blows against it - impressive.
"Rebel delivers strong blows against Crafty." That'll make Ed's day.
But what I want to give an applause for, is the release style-wise. We get an executable, we get one parameter, we can adjust threads. THAT's the spirit - just as in the old days where programmers were expected to work out optimal settings for themselves
Posts : 1254 Join date : 2020-11-17 Location : France
Subject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:51 am
Admin wrote:
Oh well, forgot to tell, PB still under construction.
Yes, use the Noomen book, no update needed.
UCI specification doesn't really include "book", in fact the spec says that "book is best handled by the GUI".
Permanent Brain? Is that the same as the "ponder" command in UCI? It's not a compulsory UCI feature. Since this is first time I got involved with putting a UCI version out for anybody other than myself, can someone tell me how "ponder" is supposed to work - if it's just a question of handling the UCI and the GUI takes care of the rest, that's fairly easy, I can probably do that.
Mclane
Posts : 2921 Join date : 2020-11-17 Age : 57 Location : United States of Europe, Germany, Ruhr area
Subject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ? Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:29 am
Yes. Permanent brain is ponder
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Subject: Re: News about Rebel or Chess System Tal ?
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